Beginners playing with other musicians

[adam]

Hello, I've been playing drums off and on for about a year now (I don't have access to them all the time) and occasionally I jam with a few friends who play guitar. When we play, I find that I make a lot more mistakes than I do when playing by myself. I'll try to think of a creative fill and I'll mess it up completely or I'll end up losing my place. I feel limited to the simplest grooves and I'll repeat them all the time. I try to improvise while playing but whatever I try usually messes up the entire groove.

I realize that I am still a beginner, but is this a common problem that is overcome with experience or should I be focusing on a certain aspect of my playing? Any help would be appreciated, thanks! -Adam

[random]

when you're noticing you're not doing so hot, you're working to correct it, and so you're getting better.  keep playing with other musicians, it's the most enjoyable method of learning.

[Matt Self (Gaddabout)]

Adam, there tons of things you could do, but I also think it's important to identify why you're freezing up. My guess is a couple of things: you're tense when you play with other musicians and you're body hasn't worked out enough freedom to allow you to play what you hear.

The latter comes with time and practice. So does the former, but you could also do a little mentle exercise the might help you in the interim: relax, have fun and don't worry about trying to impress them with fills and other stuff. Just lay it down and don't stray for now. Take more chances after you've totally mastered them by yourself in your practice.

[Chris Whitten]

You probably push yourself and are more critical of yourself when playing with other musicians. Although unpleasant, I'd say it's a good thing. Just try not to get yourself down.
Also you can't run before you can walk. One year is a very short time in drumming terms.

[windhorse]

Just yesterday we went to our group lesson in the mountains, and this time our teacher had a band practice afterwards. We are invited to the next gig as back-ups for when they get tired, bored, or feel like getting out and dancing or flirting. So, being the groveling lesser experienced player, I was put on parts where I'm not so well versed and flailed a bit. They were nice about it, but one of the guys had to explain to me that "when you play with guys that have played together for over 10 years, they're going to hear every single nuance, and you need to listen for microscopic steps in acceleration, or feel the steadiness and stay steady."
It was sort of like being lectured to,,, and it was a challenge to stay with the group through the practice.
My mind kept racing, and I felt a little uncomfortable.
Oh well... you gotta learn sometime, and can't always be the coolest cat in the room.

[dogxray]

Playing with other musicians is the quickest way to getting better. Your mind races to do all thses rolls, beats or fills but the technique to pull them off is not there yet. Your on the right path just keep playing

[zrated bill]

I would agree with the other replys, just try and relax and do what you feel comfortable with while jamming with your freinds. It's tuff being able to play along with live muscians because you cant start the CD over as in practice. Try and relax and do what you feel comfortable with and dont be so critical of yorself. You yourself said you only get to jump on a kit once in a while so its not like your practicing for the last year everyday so your Mental beat library is not built up as of yet. It just takes constant PRACTICE, the more practice the more you store in your brain for those ties it comes to hit those fills or change up the beat.
Relax, enjoy and dont be so hard on yourself. It will all come in time and jamming with your friends is giving you good expieriance no matter how you play as long as you PLAY ! Keep the faith man and dont give up !

[B-cero]

Keep the GROOVE at all costs, when the groove is solid the places to "step out" will show themselves. Dont look for those places, let them appear. In a jam situation, support the music and the other more experienced players by learning to be a groove player....groovy?

[jokerjkny]

when you're noticing you're not doing so hot, you're working to correct it, and so you're getting better.  keep playing with other musicians, it's the most enjoyable method of learning.

+1

btw, if you're messing up the time of the other guys you're jamming with, then all the more reason you should be practicing with a metronome.

you dont necessarily have to use a metronome when you're jamming, but you do need to improve and fine tune your inner clock.  anytime you sit down to your drumset to practice, its a great idea to flip it on.

my own fav is Boss' Dr. Beat DB-12.  small, unobtrusive, and flexible.

IMHO, there's prolly no other piece of gear besides a teacher and book that would better help you improve.

[adam]

Thanks for all the info! I still have a long way to go, and I have a general idea of what I need to work on. I'm hoping to get a teacher during the summer to give me some more feedback on my playing. I use a Tama Rhythm watch when I practice on the pad, and occasionally on the drumset, although I tend to lose my place often. Thanks again for the replies!

[jokerjkny]

(...)I use a Tama Rhythm watch when I practice on the pad, and occasionally on the drumset, although I tend to lose my place often.(...)

if that's the case, is it loud enough?

tho there are a ton of other factors for why its hard to play with a metronome, alot of times, its simply cause its not loud enough for us to follow.  strange but true!   :o ;D

[smoggrocks]

if that's the case, is it loud enough?

tho there are a ton of other factors for why its hard to play with a metronome, alot of times, its simply cause its not loud enough for us to follow.  strange but true!   :o ;D

oh, i know. isn't that the ultimate catch-22?

when i bought my dr. beat, i ended up having to pipe it through my guitar amp, then wearing earplugs coz it was too loud. can you say 'defeating the purpose?'

as for the original question, it sounds like you're nervous and maybe not all together with your hands/feet/independence/etc. i would also say to just focus on the groove [especially if you find you lose the groove when playing your whole kit to the click]. do the simplest of fills -- play 1 or 2 hits instead of trying to cram in 5. a simple, well-placed fill resonates far more than an ill-conceived, nonsensical "busy" fill. people hire drummers to make the music feel good, and that mostly comes from having great time and feel.

just groove, breathe, let yourself get into the music -- then jump in when you feel the space for a fill. or don't jump in at all. sometimes that's the best way to fill [up space]!

if possible, tape your sessions. and keep playing with people who know more than you. you'll always learn from them, and they're generally a lot nicer than people who don't really know what they're doing.

good luck -- tell us how you come along!

[ritarocks]

I realize that I am still a beginner, but is this a common problem that is overcome with experience

Absolutely!  Playing with others and making mistakes is all about the learning process.  Its almost like you have to play with other musicians live and make such mistakes in order to break into that next level of playing.  

As far as messing up on the fills, don't tense up or get nervous.  Try keeping a solid pulse with your feet during the fills if you are not doing so already.

[dizz]

Not having access to a kit is not helping.  Need some time on em

First thing I would do -if I was serious, is buy a kit

[adam]

I have the kit, but I am living at school most the time with access to the kit on weekends. I have the drum pad here (with the metronome) to practice on. During the summer months I'll probably seek out an instructor to help speed up my learning during the couple months I have off.

[jokerjkny]

(...)

if possible, tape your sessions. and keep playing with people who know more than you. you'll always learn from them, and they're generally a lot nicer than people who don't really know what they're doing.
(...)

dagnabbit,

beat me to it.   :P

[William Leslie]

Had the same problem when I started out, although I was lucking in the respect that the guys I worked with realized everyone has tpo start somewhere. They took the time to point things out to me and we talked after every job. All started to go smooth after some time and hard work. The only time I felt like a fool was the night I sat in with my instructors band. He was very quick to tell me in no uncertain terms how I was screwing up and how he thought he had taught me better than that. That night was hard to get over, but life goes on and so did I.

[Floyd42]

I am so lucky that, in our band, we are all beginners. We all began with almost nothing: some musical bakcground for two of us. We just pick the instruments, and play !

It was funny ! Now we're playing for over a year, and still find it fun ! We improve each day !  :D

[will_tm]

We all began with almost nothing: some musical bakcground for two of us. We just pick the instruments, and play !

This was how my band started. We had all played instruments when we were young, be it guitar, piano, drums etc.  One day we just decided to make a band, we fell into our respective places, and the first few practices were horrible dirge. After a few months we got ourselves sounding ok, and 2 years on we are writing some good original songs.