"You're so solid"......when this compliments starts to become unflattering. :(

[DoubleC]

Hi DC'ers.....

I recently did a cover gig with some exceptional musicians where the bass player pointed out how solid I am (was) BUT I need to play more fills.  He also pointed out that when they have such-and-such drummer sit in, he plays all kinds of fills just to amuse himself.  While I do value his opinion, at the same time, I try to be the drummer that's not filling all over the place just for the sake of filling.  Plus, it's a cover gig so I try to stay pretty close to the tune.  Don't get me wrong, I love to add my own interpretation to each song but I pretty much stay pretty close to the tune.  So, I've been adding more drumming to each song.  And even though the band members have expressed they like the added playing, I'm not enjoying the extra drumming in every song. It just sounds like another drummer wanking off.  But I am trying to adjust to the NON less-is-more concept of playing.

So, this leads me to my subject line of, "your playing is so solid".  I did 2 gigs within the week where some fellow musicians (who I respect) came by and checked out my bands.  In both of these bands, I pretty much just laid it down, adding a little here and there, but pretty much just tried to stay true to the song (cover).  So both complimented that my playing was, "......so solid". 

This pretty much has been the compliment of my playing for 20+ years and while I appreciate it, I can't help but feel that being solid equates to not playing enough fills or just not being creative.  It would be nice to hear, maybe just once, "wow, I really like that fill you used in that song" or maybe "I really like what you were doing when the guitarist was taking his solo." 

Would it be so bad if one of my fills did stand out in a song?  I understand it really is about the music/band and not about an individual(s) in the band but after hearing "you're so solid" for so long, it would be nice to hear a different compliment. 

Is anyone else experiencing this in his/her playing?

cc

[Ryan Culberson]

You mention 2 bands that you're playing with, 2 gigs within the week, and a cover gig you recently did...

Seems to me that solid is working out pretty well for you!   ;D

When playing live, it seems that some people do want a little bit extra "flash" in the playing.  What I've found successful in those situations is to add a little extra body movement (not necessarily any extra notes), ala Shawn Pelton or Steve Jordan. 
 

[Mister Acrolite]

You mention 2 bands that you're playing with, 2 gigs within the week, and a cover gig you recently did...

Seems to me that solid is working out pretty well for you!   ;D

When playing live, it seems that some people do want a little bit extra "flash" in the playing.  What I've found successful in those situations is to add a little extra body movement (not necessarily any extra notes), ala Shawn Pelton or Steve Jordan. 

I totally agree.

And in my 30+ years of playing professionally, I'm not sure I've ever had a non-drummer compliment my fills.

Drummers get hired for being solid. And as Ryan has observed solid drummers who appear physically "into it" tend to get hired even more.

I'd say stick with what's working. In most professional contexts, a drummer's primary responsiblity is keeping time, and you're consistently getting complimented for doing just that.

Not only that, you're getting complimented for being true to your own musical instincts, which is to keep time and serve the song. Look at the phrase you used to describe that other drummer: playing flashy fills "to amuse himself." That's selfish wanking, not music.

Keep doing what you're doing.

[Bob Pettit]

 'Your so solid' is a compliment and think I'd not have thought otherwise. The fact that you are working several gigs, as pointed out, is good evidence you are doing right.

Couple things, not saying you don't know already, but just things I've thought on the subject: solid playing has to still breath and be flexible to nuance. It is possible to bulldose the beat, possibly the radio version, and not pick up on the changes wrought by the band.

Solid does not mean no fills.... the fills themselves have to be solid. The fill must fold out and back in the pulse, enhancing the beat. One mentions Shawn Pelton and there is a man who can rip through a solid fill that adds and not detracts from his rock solid pulse. It is wrong for a fill to break up the pulse, but almost worse are fills that are just kind of wimpy. A fill can be just blase', not mean anything or make a statement. I call them 'like why did you bother fills' and you hear some guys busy with them, no clarity, no cut, just white ghost note noise.

One last thing, playing solid fills is a skill some drummers never get but can still do reasonably well hiding behind a solid beat. I think the audience is hep to that and expects a drummer to show off a bit, let them know they got a power under the hood. You can tell....

So, just some observations from me.



..

[Tim van de Ven]

"Solid" gets me 100% of my work; it's the non-solid guys around here (Montreal) that make it very easy for me.

Get into more fills when you feel it; don't push too hard; practise at home (adding fills) and then see where they fall when you get to the rehearsal space.

[Chris Whitten]

I recently did a cover gig with some exceptional musicians where the bass player pointed out how solid I am (was) BUT I need to play more fills.  He also pointed out that when they have such-and-such drummer sit in, he plays all kinds of fills just to amuse himself. 

Those last few words trigger all my warning alarms.
Sounds to me like you are more of an effective player than the bassist.
You never play 'all kinds of fills just to amuse' yourself.
You always play fills to suit the song, enable a great experience for the listener.
I guess you should always keep in mind what your band mates want to hear, but I don't have a lot of respect for any drummer who fills to amuse themselves. That implies they aren't amused when playing for the song. No-no-no.
As for 'solid'. Any compliment is nice.
Although I always note feedback, good and bad, I try not to put to much store by compliments.
You get as many put downs as compliments in life, so I try to put the negatives and positives in context.

[KevinD]

I think you've gotten some great responses and hopefully that will reassure you that you are doing the right thing on these gigs.

By any chance is this bass player one of those guys who does a lot of Stanley Clarke and Jaco runs at the top of the neck too?

A couple of points here:
"you're so solid" is a great compliment for a drummer or any rhythm section to hear, solid rhythm sections get hired more than flashy ones. As mentioned in the responses, there are a lot of drummers who just can't play that way. (AND more than a few famous ones who were known for their "flashy'ness" but failed in the studio because they couldn't just lay it down).

When I think of "solid" I think of the playing of the drummers on so many classic recordings; Phil Rudd, Charlie Watts, Jeff Porcaro, Steve Gadd (in studio mode), whomever played on the Abba and Bee Gees records, and things like that.

MANY, MANY drummers over the years have just butchered the songs these guys and others have played on because they couldn't get over the fact that the "solid" part of the tune is what helped made it so appealing. The "solid" part is what gets people out on the dance floor....people dance, they drink and spend money, they have a good time, they bring their friends next time you play......your band gets hired again.

Also a LOT more drummers get hired playing like the drummer for Abba than they do by playing fills all over the place and letting their ego get in the way while they try to "improve" the original part or try to leave their own mark on a tune.

Most people who see a cover band want to hear it like the record. SO... the drum part from "Brown Eyed Girl" is boring...BUT people aren't there to hear that drum part spiced up with fills all over the place.

Additionally, you don't say it but, I am guessing that the bass player is NOT the guy who hires and fires for that gig. I'll bet if you spoke to the leader I would doubt he/she feels that you need to be busier. Especially if the leader is the singer, they hate having to compete with a busy drummer, in fact most singers just want a very solid drummer who keeps good time. Sounds like that is what you've been doing all along.

Sometimes when working with a songwriter on original stuff I've been asked to spice things up a bit in a particular section or transition, but very rarely if ever, on covers tunes where I was pretty much sticking to what was on the record.

Now,if you are so inclined, one thing you may request if circumstances permit, is that you get one tune in the spotlight per night, (or set) you can stretch a little and show your stuff. That ought to silence those who feel a need to hear more.

[Todd Knapp]

I'm another guy who usually needs to be asked to add stuff rather than subtract. But, as long as the phone keeps ringing... The trick is to be able to give more when necessary, but I often start simply and build bit by bit. All the advice above is great, and I agree with it, but I'd like to take a slightly different tack on this.

We have to play not only for the satisfaction of others, but for ourselves - or better yet from ourselves. But I don't mean simply allowing every idea that comes into our heads to make it out onto the kit: can you imagine someone who - being bored - just continually enunciated their stream of consciousness? We wouldn't believe that everything such a person said were what they "really" thought/felt. Rather, we'd recognise that a lot of it was just randomly generated with no root.

Anyway, one of the things that's gotten lost a little bit in an age when imitation and conformity are - partly - necessary to keep working as a player is that one of our goals should be to play from the inside out. And there is some pressure at times to play a lot of notes, and be flashy and fill a lot of space. Some (not all) of the drummers who are considered at the top of the game play a lot of notes, so sometimes it's normal to figure we have to get with that program.

But, we have to play the music the way we hear it to play honestly and with conviction. But that doesn't always mean playing a lot of notes. If you don't hear a whole lot of fills, don't play them. If you do - and it's not just boredom speaking - play them! If you hear a simple part, play it. That's your concept. And as the guys above have mentioned, there are/have been plenty of great players who have taken a simple, supportive concept to great heights and had plenty of success. I think their real success lies in playing with integrity and passion. Have you ever doubted that Steve Jordan means every note he plays from the heart? Was there ever any doubt that Phil Rudd meant what he was playing? The honesty, conviction and joy shines through their playing because it's real. And it's infectious, even across decades and various electronic and solid-state mediums. Watch what You Shook Me All Night Long does to a pub on a Saturday night. Take your simple part and be it, and other people will be convinced, too. There's nothing wrong with running toward yourself.

[Mark Pedersen]

Which would you prefer? Getting compliments on your playing versus NOT getting any? Which would you prefer. I have to agree - "your playing is so solid" is probably the best compliment you can receive. That is what drummers around the world aspire too, laying it down and keeping it there!

Although I have to say - I was once kicked out of a band for being to solid and not "sloppy" enough. But that's another story for another time.

[Big Yummy]

Is the glass half full or half empty?  If you were getting complimented for your flashy playing, would you worry that was a sly way of saying you weren't solid enough?

Don't go looking for negatives.  They'll find you easily enough.

[DoubleC]

Thanks so much for ALL the input/feedback.  I can't tell you how much this has meant to me.

To answer some questions, the bass player is the music director and the guy who "hired" me so I kind of felt obligated to give him what he wants to hear.  Although, from the last couple of gigs, after my post, I've been playing a little more (if that) but with more conviction if that makes sense.  As suggested, I've been learning the songs a little better......like REALLY getting to know what's coming around the corner.  The bass player even complimented and said I was playing with less hesitation and indicated this is what I've been missing. 

Another thing that has really stuck with me was from Steve Jordan's interview in this month's MD regarding a conversation he had with Jim Keltner.

"He (Jim) said you have to be very confident when you play the drums.  When you're trying to be a humble person, that's not something you necessarily want to cop to.  But Jim is absolutely right.  If you're going to play the drums, you have to be very confident."

And this......

"You need to be able to say, 'I can do it.'  You don't want to get in a plane with a pilot that doesn't know if he can fly the plane.  You want him to say, 'Yes, I can fly this plane.  And I can LAND it.'"

cc

[Chris Whitten]

Yes, you have to feel in yourself like you're running the show.

Seems like there has been a little confusion in some of the communications.
Being 'solid' implies to me sounding confident, not disappearing into your shell.
Playing more fills just for the heck of it, is what it is,,,,,, not a true component of owning the song.

[Big Yummy]

"He (Jim) said you have to be very confident when you play the drums.  When you're trying to be a humble person, that's not something you necessarily want to cop to.  But Jim is absolutely right.  If you're going to play the drums, you have to be very confident."

A bit of acting helps.  Before a show, I try to breath deeply, pause and say to myself, "I'm not a real drummer, but I play one on stage."

[Rylie]

I think Keith's comment that he never received a "nice fill" from a non-drummer is hilarious...and very true.

My limited experience has taught me that if I expect compliments from ANYONE for doing a good job at keeping time or playing a nice fill as a drummer, I will always be disappointed.

The feedback I get is typically negative, and comes in the form of a squinted, over-the-shoulder glance from the lead guitarist who starts songs (live) without looking at his bandmates to make sure we're all ready to go. I'll be wiping my hands or changing sticks and all of a sudden he's playing his intro.  >:(

My greatest reward comes in gig invitations, and being allowed to do something that I love so much and wish I had started and stuck with 40 years sooner.

When I'm told that I'm "solid", I'm giddy.

[David Jung]

When I'm told that I'm "solid", I'm giddy.

I don't get giddy, but it is a compliment and when it comes from someone you respect and/or know they know the difference between solid and not-solid it can mean a lot.

--David

[Rylie]

I don't get giddy, but it is a compliment and when it comes from someone you respect and/or know they know the difference between solid and not-solid it can mean a lot.

--David

To me, a compliment is a compliment, and anyone willing to go out of their way to give me one (sincere, educated or otherwise) is something to be thankful for. Perhaps "giddy" is an exaggeration. However, being a self-taught amateur such as myself, perhaps it isn't!

Granted, if Steve Gadd went out of his way to give me one, it would mean something completely different than one coming from a drunken bar patron with dried queso dip in his mustache. Both, however, are appreciated...by me.

[Chip Donaho]

To me, a compliment is a compliment, and anyone willing to go out of their way to give me one (sincere, educated or otherwise) is something to be thankful for.

I agree 100%, I would consider that person a friend.  ;)

[William Leslie]

Years ago I used to add fills all over the place. When our bass player was taking a spot I would add things to highlite his part. A back and forth if you will. Got a lot of great comments from the crowd, but the bass player didn't like it at all. Rather than talk to me about it, he went to our leader and I was asked to leave the band. Then I was asked by the leader it I knew any drummer that was a solid straight player and  not interested in flashy moves. I gave him a name and later that year I attended one of their gigs and that's just what they got. No flash, no show, just a solid basic drummer keeping a beat. The band liked it, but the crowd had gone down in size. Go figure.I have since toned down my fills unless asked to add a little more life, by the leader. It's been working out fine since I changed. I was later told by some friends that the bass player said I was trying to steal his thunder. Again, Go figure.

[Paicey]

I get the solid thing to and sometimes feel that being told you are really (solid)  is the quick polite way out of a conversation. Ive used the word solid myself when complimenting someone i thought was a bit boring. I think Chris Whitten is COOL solid, Shawn Pelton is COOL solid, as is Ringo, Charlie, Dave Mattacks, etc etc but ive heard quite a few BORING solid drummers in my day. Know what i mean?.

[Tim van de Ven]

I get the solid thing to and sometimes feel that being told you are really (solid)  is the quick polite way out of a conversation. Ive used the word solid myself when complimenting someone i thought was a bit boring. I think Chris Whitten is COOL solid, Shawn Pelton is COOL solid, as is Ringo, Charlie, Dave Mattacks, etc etc but ive heard quite a few BORING solid drummers in my day. Know what i mean?.

Solid post.   ;) ;D