what are some of the things that guitar players do that makes you nuts. This includes bass players...
...my list is a mile long but will start with:
- putting TONS of effects on their sound so all the chords sound about the same. it's like one big "melodic" two-stroke engine shifting gears.
PLAYING TOO LOUD!!!!!!
Just because it goes to 11 doesn't mean that I or the audience wants to hear it.
Hmmm...well, I had a guy carry my Humes and Berg hard cases by the strap that holds the top on for 6 months...finally he exclaimed one night.."hey, I never noticed this handle on the side before...did you put that on lately?" :-X
Quote from: DWdrmr on March 27, 2006, 05:41 PM
Hmmm...well, I had a guy carry my Humes and Berg hard cases by the strap that holds the top on for 6 months...finally he exclaimed one night.."hey, I never noticed this handle on the side before...did you put that on lately?" :-X
WOW you mean they actually help you carry your gear??
which brings up..
- guitar players that never help you carry your gear >:(
After finally finding a volume level where we can hear everyone, they continually go back to their amps and turn their own volume back up, little by little, until three songs later, they're overpowering the band in the next room.
Oh, and: Upping the tempo of the song and then blaming the drummer. This is especially easy for bass players.
You know, I meant to give credit (not the point of this post..I know, I know)..to the guitar player who did the above mentioned thing. But yes, he/they did help carry my stuff, in fact, in my current band sitch, they all help. So, I really don't have alot to complain about with the players I've had over the last decade, or so..One did try to set a beer on my bass drum...did'nt take long to striaghten that out.
Mostly the same things that sax players, pianists, trumpet players,violinists, etc. do. Guitarists just do it louder.
definately when they blast it with overdrive and distortion.....cant stand that....it seems like you have to play something different to know when a quitar effects sound good....i dunno.....or when they mess up just a little and start the whole song over, embarressing everyone in the band.
I can't stand guys who constantly fiddle. I've worked with one who is forever pushing his effects pedal switches, [plays power chord], switches cables, [plays power chord], turns some knobs, [plays power chord], then its back to the pedal switches and the process starts over again. Although frustrating, its actually kind of entertaining to watch.
Oh yes, tuning on the other hand, is something that gets dealt with if there's still time.
A few years ago, I saw a singer/songwriter/guitarist as an opening act for another band. He had a "tech" helping him out, as he'd switch from between two different guitars for a few of the songs. So far, so good.
The tech had an electronic tuner, and would check each guitar before handing it to the performer on stage. So far, so good.
The performer would then take the guitar, plug it in to a tuner, and adjust the tuning. Meanwhile, the tech had taken the player's previous guitar, had plugged it into HIS tuner, and...he started fiddling with the tuning.
The same two guitars went back and forth between the tech and the player, maybe six or seven times during the course of the set, with each individual retuning their newly-acquired guitar on each exchange.
Perhaps it was some sort of A=440 vs A=442 disagreement between the two gentlemen? ???
I hate it when they waste time between songs, fiddling around with effects. Dude, just set it and leave it alone until break time, Ever hear of programming a chain so you hit the pedal one time and it goes to the next setting you need?
Even worse is when they play the opening line of the song before we start it..... Kind of like there giving themselves a warmup or a reminder before each song. How would they like it if before each song I played a few bars of the tune?
Quote from: DaveFromChicago on March 27, 2006, 07:40 PM
I can't stand guys who constantly fiddle. I've worked with one who is forever pushing his effects pedal switches, [plays power chord], switches cables, [plays power chord], turns some knobs, [plays power chord], then its back to the pedal switches and the process starts over again. Although frustrating, its actually kind of entertaining to watch.
...
LOL! The pedalboard tap dance. Especially during the half hour before the gig. Not quietly, either. I'd rather go through Chinese water torture.
And don't forget the "dang, I knew should've picked up a 9-volt battery at QuikTrip but I had to get smokes" blues.
Bless their hearts though ... they do help with carrying my stuff afterwards.
funny,
but i guess i do annoying myself sometimes... :P ;D
Tuning by ear ON STAGE! Nothing like hearing the old Gibson Doorbell between each song. Spend $20 and buy an inline tuner for Christ's sake!
I'll just echo what everyone above says about fiddling.
They just all love to fiddle around and play junk between songs. As a drummer, you just can't do that because you'll be too loud.
So how do I deal with it?
I ALWAYS have a real-feel pad with me. When the fiddling starts, in 2 seconds I have my pad and I can at least get some drumming in on the pad while everyone fiddles and figures out their parts to the next song.
This seems to be an issue no matter who I'm rehearsing with - from rockers to people at church, etc.
I'm probably an overly non-fiddler since when I was younger I played in drum & bugle corps. Simply put, when you have over 100 members, you simple can't have any fiddlers. You just can't. So I've always been used to just not hitting my instrument at all between "real practicing".
But you just can't stop others from doing it, so that's where the pad comes in! They can't even here it over the guitar licks, singer's licks, piano scales, etc.
Now if I had a way to switch on some sort of bass drum / hi-hat pad, I'd really be in business.
Alright - the other thing I hate, "play a beat that goes like this..." followed by some random sounding wanna be drum-speak that nobody could understand. Then I just play what sounds right and they go, "yeah, that's what I meant!". Hey man, it's all about making the guitar, singer feel good in the end, isn't it!
they never die.
its allways the drummer
and we never get pic's taken of us
DITTO DITTO AND DITTO...
My bass player is a 'fiddler', constantly dinking around on the bass... Not only is it annoying, but he starts one of our songs by himself. He will be just hitting random notes then go into the song without any break. It takes a few notes to realize what he's doing, then the rest of us have to scramble to catch up! >:( Then I told him how annoying it is, he says it is to keep people entertained. I wonder how often people are entertained by the random plucking of a not so great bass player... ???
(that's not a dig at him, just that none of us are so great in our band)
My other huge complaint is my band mates refuse to learn even the simplest things about musical structure. Don't know the difference between a bar and a measure. Can't define either. What's a note value????? Keep dreaming. So our communication sucks. I'm trying to figure out what they intend to play when they keep playing the same phrase differently, and they use their own made up terms for what they are doing!!!
Oh yeah- and complain about having to bring stuff to gigs. WOW a guitar and a head. OH NO and a cable too!!!! As I carry a 5 piece kit and hardware + cymbals + throne etc... Then "can I keep my head in you car?" Whatever dude!
Tuning on stage and fiddling between tunes.
Not having a spare pick.
Roger
The tuning on stage thing--especially AUDIBLY tuning--has to be my biggest peeve. (dee dee, Dee Dee, Ding ding-ing-ing-ing-iiinnngg-iiiiiiiiiiiiing)
Also: Writing the set-list with no forethought about "settings", etc. Nothing like having a packed dance floor and starting to count off the next song and the guitar player says "Wait, wait, wait!!" Then resets 10 pedals and knobs--and retunes too!
Quote from: DWdrmr on March 27, 2006, 05:41 PM
Hmmm...well, I had a guy carry my Humes and Berg hard cases by the strap that holds the top on for 6 months...finally he exclaimed one night.."hey, I never noticed this handle on the side before...did you put that on lately?" :-X
My guitarist for my band is also my best friend... basically lives at my house. so he can't play drums at all but he can pack them and carry them and he also can set up my set pretty @$%# good.
What bothers me is that they spend about 15 minutes tuning, and then they do it all over again.... once they are done with that they start to mess around to make sure the tuning flows right.... and then get pissed when you say that you are ready to start.
What bugs me:
- When guitarists play too loud
- Use so much distortion that no one can distinguish the notes
- They think it's okay to mess around between songs
- Tune by ear and their guitar sounds like "suck"
When they show up for gigs, bugs the crap out of me. ;)
Quote from: shoeless on March 28, 2006, 09:04 AM
When they show up for gigs, bugs the crap out of me. ;)
You can always tell a guitar player. . . but you can't tell him much. :)
Quote from: rdmitch on March 27, 2006, 09:14 PM
Even worse is when they play the opening line of the song before we start it..... Kind of like there giving themselves a warmup or a reminder before each song. How would they like it if before each song I played a few bars of the tune?
This is definitely number 1 for me, although I've also played with a couple of sax players that do this, too. If they just HAVE to do this, I wouldn't mind if they just turned down briefly to do it, and then they can turn back up when it's time to start the song.
However, I find it interesting that if the guitar player/sax player, etc. is also the front person/lead vocalist, that this kind of thing practically NEVER happens!
Why don't we compile a list of pointers for guitarists? Here's a first draft.
- It doesn't matter how loud your guitar is, if it's so distorted I can't hear it, I can't play along with it.
- If you break a string every set, get heavier strings.
- Turn your amp volume to "off", or stop playing COMPLETELY between songs.
- Get an electronic tuner.
- Sink your money into a good, powerful amp before buying even one pedal.
- For every layer of effects you add to the guitar, you need to step up your amp one size to compensate for those things sucking the life out of your sound.
- If I can't hear the drums, I can't play them.
- I like music, I don't want to go deaf.
- I'll lift your amp, since it's too heavy for you, AFTER you bring in my drums. (I'll carry the hardware.)
- Hit my cymbals during the set and I'll practice paradiddles on your guitar.
What gets me is when they blame every timing issue on the drummer. I get so sick of all heads turning my way when the bass player is rushing or dragging.
Or, if the guitar player counts off his guitar intro 10 bpm too slow and it's my fault the tune is not fast enough?!?! Sheesh, I can only play the tune as fast or slow as you start it, buddy. :(
Echoing many:
1. Noodling between songs.
2. Tuning between songs. Figure it out, if a certain song knocks the tuning out EVERY TIME, put it LAST in the set! OR PLAN a swap to a TUNED guitar.
3. Oh yeah, swapping out electric guitars for different songs that DON"T have an altered tuning (without a tech).
4. Failing to check the tuning on spare guitars UNTIL you break a string on the main one and swap them out! (and not replacing the string on the next break or not having spares)
5. Playing the hook of a song PRIOR to the song (if you can't remember it, PRACTICE elsewhere).
6. The pedal dancers. If more than 2 FX and one volume pedal are used, GET A COMBO FX UNIT! LEARN to program it. This also avoids the mass/mess of taping down wires. I know they'll miss the circle of servants surrounding them.
7. Teaching the subbing bassist the song's main lines right before the song in the middle of a set.
Basically, I hate wasting the audience's time. Any time REQUIRED between songs should be planned for. Otherwise, it's non-professional behaviour.
Boomerweps
How about the ever-popular--
Trying out new gear for the first time ON STAGE!!
or--
Doing a complete string change 10 minutes before the first set!!
hee-hee, these are funny.
i actually don't mind the tuning, as i'd rather have an in-tune guitar than out-of-tune. but too much noodling between tunes is annoying. kills the set pacing.
what really bugs me is overly-reverbed gtrs and solos that go nowhere. i'm one of the few that actually gets into solos...but they gotta be good!
also don't like when a guitarist doesn't watch me while playing. we're all playing the same dang tune, so why not, er... tune in??
Quote from: scottboundy on March 27, 2006, 05:22 PM
what are some of the things that guitar players do that makes you nuts.
They play guitars. Really loud guitars. I hate that...
Quote from: DaveFromChicago on March 27, 2006, 07:40 PM
I can't stand guys who constantly fiddle. I've worked with one who is forever pushing his effects pedal switches, [plays power chord], switches cables, [plays power chord], turns some knobs, [plays power chord], then its back to the pedal switches and the process starts over again. Although frustrating, its actually kind of entertaining to watch.
that's funny - just last week in practice the bass player seemed to spend half the time fooling with his amp settings, while leaving me twisting in the wind with no bottom line.....
I don't have any problem with the guy's that I am playing with now. They all understand balance and most of the time we have to tell the lead guitar player to turn up a little bit but we use a sound meter to balance the band. The gadget thing of fiddle and stomping can sometimes get old. Simple is better. I guess what bothers me the most is we practice for 45 min. and then they have to smoke 4 or 5 cigarettes outside and then 45 min and then 4 or 5 cigarettes. If we could pipe the nicotine into them we would get more done. My wife has asthma so the cigs need to stay outside. Even in Kentucky we are passing no smoking laws.
Restaurants are mostly smoke free in Lexington and Louisville.
I am really glad it past.
Nutty
You know Nutty, the no smoking in public buildings law has been around here (Southern California) for about 10 years now I think. It's a great thing to play a bar and not feel like I smoked a pack of cigs the next day. I love it.
Sorry for the near hijack everyone. ;)
Back to topic,
I thought of another guitar player annoyance. Not really a live thing, but when they get all weird about recording solos. I think we sat through about 34 takes of a 12 bar solo last time we recorded, luckily it is my dad's home studio, so the time was free, but dang man, I thought it was a good solo 33 takes ago. :)
The big problem I have with guitar players is their attitude.
You're the guitar player. You're not the band director. Your solos are not going to make or break the band. If they would, I'd follow you anywhere. But, they won't. You just imagine they will.
I know you can't hear yourself. It's because you aimed your speakers at your knees. Your ears are 3-4 feet up from there. Aim your speakers at your ears.
Being a guitar player in no way qualifies you to direct the drummer.
If the guitar player has timing issues, I suggest he acquaint himself with a metronome. Then, talk to me about timing issues.
Unless you really are a music god, you cannot play well when you're stoned and/or drunk. I'm still waiting for the music god.
Other musicians in the room have ideas and opinions.
Quote from: marker on March 28, 2006, 06:37 PM
The big problem I have with guitar players is their attitude.
You're the guitar player. You're not the band director. Your solos are not going to make or break the band. If they would, I'd follow you anywhere. But, they won't. You just imagine they will.
I know you can't hear yourself. It's because you aimed your speakers at your knees. Your ears are 3-4 feet up from there. Aim your speakers at your ears.
Being a guitar player in no way qualifies you to direct the drummer.
If the guitar player has timing issues, I suggest he acquaint himself with a metronome. Then, talk to me about timing issues.
Unless you really are a music god, you cannot play well when you're stoned and/or drunk. I'm still waiting for the music god.
Other musicians in the room have ideas and opinions.
What the guitar player hears:
You're the guitar player. You're not the band director.
Your solos are not
going to make or break
the band. If they would,
I'd follow you anywhere. But, they won't. You
just imagine they will.
I know you can't hear yourself. It's because you aimed your speakers at your knees. Your ears are 3-4 feet up from there. Aim your speakers at your ears.
Being a guitar player in no way
qualifies you to direct the drummer.
If the guitar player has timing issues, I suggest he acquaint himself with a metronome. Then,
talk to me about timing issues.
Unless
you really are a music god,
you cannot
play well when you're stoned and/or drunk. I'm still waiting for the music god.
Other musicians in the room have ideas and opinions.
DRWM,
They can still smoke in bars in Louisville but all public buildings in Lexington. The rest of the state doesn't have any smoking laws. We are 10 years behind the times here. When I play a bar you can hear the cigs in my voice the next day.
Back to the thread, it really bothers me that there are no musicians that don't smoke in Kentucky. I am one of the few that don't. Everyone I have played music with in 10 years smoked except the church musicians. I sure there are some but not many.
Nutty
I am really lucky that pretty much no one in my band has these bad habits.
There's one thing though, when they think of a beat they want me to play they beatbox it.
Listen--boom-chikka BAP chikka boom-a-chikka BAP always sounds the same if it's coming out of your mouth. I'll listen to your suggestions if they are discernable, but otherwise, I am the drummer and I'll come up with the beats.
I'm glad this thread exists. I have alot to get off my chest.
- Acting suprised that it takes more than 3 minutes to set up my kit.
- Tuning every 5 seconds.
- Trying to play too fast and messing up.
- Trying to do beat shifts/time signature changes on their own during jams, expecting me to just realize instantaneously and follow right in.
- Too many effects
- Standing on my kick drum
- Getting patch chords under my cymbal stands somehow
- Losing set lists and asking me "What song comes next"
- Trying to set up my kit on their own
- Trying to play my kit on their own
- Treating sticks like they cost 25 cents each
- Bumping into cymbals, knocking them into my torso
- Changing my set up before a show while they are trying to play my kit
You've all pretty much covered my gripes....But our leader knows better than to put his junk in front of my bass drum. That's the only good thing he's learned not to do to me. He quit drinking several years ago and goes to AA meetings. Then he thinks everyone should be "a woose" like him.... I could never stand myself if I done all the BS between songs that guitar players do. It's pretty rare you ever meet a "real" pro anymore who doesn't do any of that stuff.... ::) :-X
Oh man, I forgot my absolute favorite:
"Hey man, can you play fast?"
Note: this is primarily from the 25 & under crowd. I used to have a practice space near a bunch of these guys who would ask those kinds of questions.
Yeah, Dittos all around on the pedal-board tap dance (AGOGOBIL- nice). Gimme a break. Play the frickin' song. I've got a guy who changes between a Strat and a Tele, depending on what song is coming up. That's nice, waiting for him to swap guitars in the middle of a set, repeatedly. Dude! Its a single coil Fender guitar- Make it work!!
Here's my original observation- I hate guitar players who won't sing. Meanwhile, I'm back there on the kit, chiming in on every song. Its a lot easier playing guitar and singing than playing drums and singing. (I play guitar, and sing, so I know from whence I speak.)
A lot of drummers may be flakes, but without us, the guitar players would be even more useless.
Slim
Telling you how to do fills by saying random drum sound effects and then acting annoyed when you don't understand.
Quote from: SlimChance on March 28, 2006, 08:10 PM
Here's my original observation- I hate guitar players who won't sing.
In their defense... not all of them can! I've worked with a couple who
think they can. Not pretty.
During practice, when they jump into a song without clicking it off or letting me click it off. Then if I dont come in immediatley they think I made a mistake. >:(
I agree with the one mentioned above.
Where the guitar player starts a song at a certain tempo, then a few bars in they cut and say it's too slow, giving you a dirty look.
Yeah, maybe we should just start the song at your tempo then slowly accelerate over 4 bars to the tempo we normally play it at...
You guys were waiting for me to chime in I hope ;)
To address a couple things from the standpoint of a guitarist ...
Too many effects is the same as too many drums/cymbals. Its about getting the sound you want. Even if that sound is thick mushy wash. If you play with a snare alone, I'll play with a guitar and amp. Just because you can't hear the difference between them, doesnt mean its not there.
Replacing individual pedal effects with a multieffect unit isn't a 1:1 trade off. Does every snare sound exactly the same? Neither does every distortion box or delay. The Line6 Pod sounds NOTHING like any of my pedals. Again, just because you cant hear it ...
Tuning between songs should be appreciated. Granted, the silent inline tuner is the best way, but still. Better in tune than out.
QuoteIf you break a string every set, get heavier strings.
Thats actually just bad advice. If you break sticks, get heavier sticks. ? No. Thats not how it works.
Many of the things you mentioned are the domain of dumba$$es, not guitarists. Just keep in mind when you post here that the same thread could very easily exist on guitarist forums with just as much legitimacy.
all the love in the world ;D
-m
Quote from: 563 on March 28, 2006, 09:39 PM
... Does every snare sound exactly the same? Neither does every distortion box or delay. The Line6 Pod sounds NOTHING like any of my pedals. Again, just because you cant hear it ...
...
You are correct.
I'm bringing 10 of my snare drums to the next gig. I will change them out depending on the song.
Thank you. I needed the validation.
;)
I hate it when my guitar player doesnt do his squats and gets a flabby butt. I mean Im stuck back there looking at it all nite the least they could do is make it a nice one, :)
Quote from: 563 on March 28, 2006, 09:39 PM
Replacing individual pedal effects with a multieffect unit isn't a 1:1 trade off. Does every snare sound exactly the same? Neither does every distortion box or delay. The Line6 Pod sounds NOTHING like any of my pedals. Again, just because you cant hear it ...
While this is a good point, it does not necessarily hold true in a live context. In the studio, definitely use the best equipment possible. However, on an average stage, you'll be lucky if the audience can even hear a chorus effect, much less determine if it's a good or bad one). I'm not saying that guitarists should not bring anything to gigs, but that constant tweaking might just be a larger annoyance than it's worth.
Few drummers bring more than one or two main snares to a gig, and rarely do I ever see a drummer replace cymbals between songs. It's not a 1:1 comparison, seeing as a drummer can use everything on a kit in a single song, while a guitarist can not (normally and easily) play more than one guitar.
As a former guitarist, I know what you mean perfectly, but I reckon that unless you have different tunings or vastly different sounds available on different guitars, one will generally be enough, with a possible second one as a backup (tuning a floyd rose equipped guitar on stage is a nightmare).
Anyway, in closing: I have no problem with a guitarist (or anyone else) bringing in enough gear to play Wembley Stadium, as long as it doesn't require five minutes of tweaking between songs. Set it up properly at home and be ready for the gig/rehearsal
Quote from: agogobil on March 28, 2006, 10:24 PM
You are correct.
I'm bringing 10 of my snare drums to the next gig. I will change them out depending on the song.
Thank you. I needed the validation.
;)
Consider the scenario of having two snare drums set up at all times, and varying the dampening, snare tension, and maybe even the tuning between songs. It's quite feasible, and perhaps more in line with the point.
Quote from: agogobil on March 28, 2006, 10:24 PMI'm bringing 10 of my snare drums to the next gig. I will change them out depending on the song.
Didn't Steve Jordan say, in his recent Modern Drummer interview, that he did this very thing while touring with James Taylor? I think it was some ridiculous (I mean, "impressive") number like ten snare drums.
"My hero..." LOL
i always bring extra cowbells too...maybe 5 or 6-- you have to have the right one for the correct song. :D
Quote from: DRWM on March 28, 2006, 12:44 PM
What gets me is when they blame every timing issue on the drummer. I get so sick of all heads turning my way when the bass player is rushing or dragging.
Or, if the guitar player counts off his guitar intro 10 bpm too slow and it's my fault the tune is not fast enough?!?! Sheesh, I can only play the tune as fast or slow as you start it, buddy. :(
Or also whenever there is a volume issue they automatically attribute it to the drummer. "Dude, can't you just play with brushes?"
Quote from: 563 on March 28, 2006, 09:39 PM
You guys were waiting for me to chime in I hope ;)
To address a couple things from the standpoint of a guitarist ...
Geeeez! Took ya long enough! :)
All in good fun, sir!
Quote from: shoeless on March 29, 2006, 06:16 AM
Or also whenever there is a volume issue they automatically attribute it to the drummer. "Dude, can't you just play with brushes?"
I was just told to do this at practice last night..... :(
Quote from: shoeless on March 29, 2006, 06:16 AM"Dude, can't you just play with brushes?"
OK, am I the only one who keeps a pair of 2" paint brushes in their hardware case for these occasions? Jeez, you guys are missing a lot of fun by not having paint brushes handy when the guitar player ask for you to use brushes.
Quote from: Jon E on March 28, 2006, 01:20 PM
How about the ever-popular--
Trying out new gear for the first time ON STAGE!!
I ALMOST edited my post to include that one but my current guitarist isn't that foolish. But this problem exists in all aspects of sound & music, PA gear, keyboard patches/simulations, throw a China in that you just HAVE to play, ect.
boomerweps
Quote from: DaveFromChicago on March 28, 2006, 06:52 PM
What the guitar player hears:
(https://drummercafe.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.comedyhome.com%2FComedianPics%2F283_L.jpg&hash=a8cce9a6eaaeaee93a394b777b20a1106b2dda3c)
Now that's funny, I don't care who you are. That's funny right there. ...
QuoteIf you break sticks, get heavier sticks?
Yes. If I'm going to play aggressively in a loud band, I'll use heavier sticks. If I try to use light maple sticks (my favourite), I won't get through the first tune without breaking a stick.
Extra slinky strings may be the bee's knees when you're at home copping BB King licks, but if you step on stage to bash out a Sex Pistols cover, with feeling, and every single time you break a string within the first minute of playing, it's time for some beefier strings.
QuoteToo many effects is the same as too many drums/cymbals. Its about getting the sound you want. Even if that sound is thick mushy wash.
A few points. First, the effects are fine if a guitarist knows how to use them. Most don't. Second, if the effects are sucking the life out of the guitar sound, a bigger amp may be required to maintain the same presence. Third, if a thick mushy wash is the desired sound, play apppropriately.
Listen to Nirvanah. When Cobain's guitar turns to mush, the playing is simplified and there's a strong rhythmic pulse. When he wants to play something more intricate, he cleans up the sound. What's the point of playing like Yngive Malmstein if you've got the guitar sound of The Jesus & Mary Chain?
Quote from: TMe on March 29, 2006, 09:26 AM
Yes. If I'm going to play aggressively in a loud band, I'll use heavier sticks. If I try to use light maple sticks (my favourite), I won't get through the first tune without breaking a stick.
Extra slinky strings may be the bee's knees when you're at home copping BB King licks, but if you step on stage to bash out a Sex Pistols cover, with feeling, and every single time you break a string within the first minute of playing, it's time for some beefier strings.
My point was that its not all in the strings. I play Firth AJ5 sticks. The skinniest non-timbale sticks you can get. And I beat the hell out of my kit sometimes. Full on monkey on crack stylee. And I've yet to break one.
I broke strings on one guitar frequently. I play 12's. Some of the heaviest you can get. I swapped out the saddles on my bridge from the stock steel to graphite. Haven't broke one since.
Quote from: TMe on March 29, 2006, 09:26 AMA few points. First, the effects are fine if a guitarist knows how to use them. Most don't.
see my comment about dumba$$es in the previous post.
Quote from: Naigewron on March 28, 2006, 11:50 PMI have no problem with a guitarist (or anyone else) bringing in enough gear to play Wembley Stadium, as long as it doesn't require five minutes of tweaking between songs. Set it up properly at home and be ready for the gig/rehearsal
I agree 100%. But don't equate a bunch of pedals with between song tweaking. Honestly, sounds like those guitarists don't have enough pedals. The guitarist in the band I play drums in has three (maybe four) identical delay pedals. Each one is set to a different sound. So he doesn't have to tweak between songs.
You want to talk about tweaking between songs? Talk to Redchapterjubilee! Freakin' drummers ;)
I understand this is all just venting frustrations from players you've dealt with. I'm not trying to be a big party pooper. But I hate to see "mistruths" circulate and generalisations become concrete.
You should treat every new person you play with with the respect and appreciation you think you deserve. If you find out down the road they're dumba$$es, deal with it then.
Quote from: Louis on March 29, 2006, 08:03 AM
OK, am I the only one who keeps a pair of 2" paint brushes in their hardware case for these occasions? Jeez, you guys are missing a lot of fun by not having paint brushes handy when the guitar player ask for you to use brushes.
How about a paint roller for when they say, "Drum roll, please!"?
QuoteBut I hate to see "mistruths" circulate and generalisations become concrete.
Fair enough. There are guitarists to whom not a single one of these complaints applies. They're real pro's.
Quote from: TMe on March 29, 2006, 11:00 AM
Fair enough. There are guitarists to whom not a single one of these complaints applies. They're real pro's.
Absolutely. The guys I work with regularly these days are stand up pros. No question. My comments were based on guys of the past.
QuoteMy point was that its not all in the strings.
Granted. But if a guitarist wants to use extra slinky strings, they should get their technique together first, and
then start using them on stage. I'm only suggesting heavier guages for a guitarist who is constantly breaking strings - to the point that his band can't get through a set without him stopping to restring his guitar. (I say "his" because I haven't met any stunned female musicians. Yet.)
Add a whammy bar to that mix, and no backup guitar, and you've got a guitarist I want to strangle.
Same with sticks. If you're not breaking the skinny ones, great. But if you were breaking them every few tunes, you'd want a heavier stick - at least until you get your technique together.
Find me a guitar player who knows what "groove" means, and can actually do it, and I am a happy camper. Even on the big stages there are guitar players who are all over the top of the beat, have no ability to groove. It always made me wonder how they got to where they are being such poor musicians. But hey, that's the life of a sideman. Sometimes you have to learn to deal with such characters because that is what you are being paid for! :(
More guitarist rules:
1. don't beatbox at the drummer.
2. the bass drum is not a shelf.
3. your guitar is not a drum stick...don't hit the cymbals with it.
4. the drummer is there to keep time because you don't know how.
5. don't throw the drumsticks in your drummer's bag into the audience.
6. DO.NOT.JUMP.OFF.THE.BASS.DRUM.
One of my guitarists has a thing with wanting to jump off of my bass drum.. i'm always afraid he is going to crush my drum one of these days.
Quote from: TravisFitch on March 30, 2006, 07:47 AM
One of my guitarists has a thing with wanting to jump off of my bass drum.. i'm always afraid he is going to crush my drum one of these days.
And you get to stand on his guitars, right? Its only fair.
Great topic! I'd say the biggest problems are when guitar players assume that drums are just "boom-boom-bap" and anybody could do it. Why aren't you doing it then? Just because you can come up and whack them doesn't mean it will sound any good.
Also, tuning on stage, setting amps to the point where even playing at full volume drums just can't keep up, and guitar players that can't tune.
I don't believe you should force anyone to sing if they don't feel comfortable with it or don't have the voice for it.
"Quote from: SlimChance on March 28, 2006, 08:10:12 PM
Here's my original observation- I hate guitar players who won't sing".
The tuning between songs, I agree that tuning out loud between songs is taking away some but I would rather this happen instead of playing out of tune.
As far as the guitar switching, I think it adds a bit of flavor to the show. It might help if you play songs in different tuning Like Eb or EbDrop D or Standard to have a different guitar for different tunings. Switching guitars is easier than retuning. The way we do it is to try to group our Eb songs and then Group our Standard tune songs. We play Contol by Puddle of Mud which is EbDropD tuning and my guitar player has one guitar tuned down for just that song.
For standard tune songs my guitar player uses his Les Paul but this is not the guitar for Satriani because it doesn't have a Wammy bar. His Eddie Van Halen signature Peavey Wolfgang does so he switches guitars. There is no wasted guitars. He does have an application for all of them. Eb songs like Stevie Ray or Hendrix needs the Stratacaster.
Nutty
QuoteOne of my guitarists has a thing with wanting to jump off of my bass drum.. i'm always afraid he is going to crush my drum one of these days.
But that looks so cool. I wonder if one could rig some sort of steel frame around the drum, so a guitarist could make that leap without destroying equipment?
Better to make the leap from an amp, though, I figure.
I used to play in a band and the guitar player was constantly begging me to let him stand on my kik and jump off. Of course the answer was always "Are you kidding? Not a chance."
One night this foolish guy decided to climb on his amp and jump off. Well he did it, and when he landed for the big ending, there was no guitar note, just screams of agony. It turned out that when he landed, his wah pedal was in the LZ and he broke his ankle on the pedal. Unfortunate for him, one of those "I told you so" moments for me.
We didn't get to finish the last set so the bar cut our pay. I guess the joke turned out to be on me after all. :)
I used to play with a bass player who would often forget to re-tune from "drop d" to standard.
That got old.
My guitar player has an insanely INSANELY annoying habit of 'Cn i play on your drum kit?' Its like he's never seen a kit before in his life! REALLY annoys me. Also the other guitarist seems to wait until the rest of the band is talking about what we should do/change then solo right over it.... grr.
Quote from: TMe on March 31, 2006, 08:45 AM
But that looks so cool. I wonder if one could rig some sort of steel frame around the drum, so a guitarist could make that leap without destroying equipment?
Better to make the leap from an amp, though, I figure.
I had my kick set up so my guitarist could jump off it. I use a heavily dampend kick so shell resonance isnt an issue, I basically had a support put inside my kick to keep it from collapsing.
Quote from: Jon E on March 31, 2006, 11:27 AM
I used to play with a bass player who would often forget to re-tune from "drop d" to standard.
That got old.
I used to play with a guy who did the same thing BUT he couldn't tell he was in the wrong key....whew....
Quote from: DRWM on March 31, 2006, 11:09 AM
I
One night this foolish guy decided to climb on his amp and jump off. Well he did it, and when he landed for the big ending, there was no guitar note, just screams of agony. It turned out that when he landed, his wah pedal was in the LZ and he broke his ankle on the pedal.
Sounds like a good "YouTube" moment.
I played in a band in LA where we kept going through guitar players for some reason. We finally got this one guy who was kind of quiet but he played pretty well. During his 1st gig with us he disappeared between sets. We set out looking for him and found him in a stall, passed out... turns out he had a bit of a problem with a needle.
I hate when they do that for sure.
Quote from: 563 on March 29, 2006, 10:24 AM
You want to talk about tweaking between songs? Talk to Redchapterjubilee! Freakin' drummers ;)
Yeah, I tune my drums in-between songs. I don't think it bothered you guys as much as when I'd start fooling around with my synthesizers between songs. I think I made the bass player's teeth itch a few times over that.
Quote from: TMe on March 28, 2006, 10:41 AM
- I like music, I don't want to go deaf.
Heehee ;D
Yesterday was the first day we went to somewhere other than my house to practice. They bring their guitars and amps in in about 3 seconds flat and are already playing, leaving me to lug in my stuff one by one. "Hey guys, can you help me bring in my stuff" I say.
Guitarist 1: "Yeah, right after I set up" (looks to me like he is already set up)
Guitarist 2: "Nah."
That's an example of what I hate. That and them refusing to accept that drums are actually a skilled and precise instrument. 'Guitarist 2' only accepted that you can actually tune drums at all when I told him for the 10th time after him saying something like "what are you twisting them things for?".
Quote from: DRWM on March 28, 2006, 12:44 PM
What gets me is when they blame every timing issue on the drummer. I get so sick of all heads turning my way when the bass player is rushing or dragging. [..]
I don't get
too much of that, but 'Guitarist 2' tends to speed up during songs a lot, which usually forces me to play faster which generally causes me to screw it up, and although its not directly blamed at me, I know he and 'Guitarist 1' thinks its my fault. Its usually only me and Bassist that can actually tell that he was going to fast (not that he listens, he just insists he was playing it right).
</rant>
Quote from: KevinD on March 31, 2006, 07:28 PM
Sounds like a good "YouTube" moment.
I only wish I had it on video. ;D
Quote
I played in a band in LA where we kept going through guitar players for some reason. We finally got this one guy who was kind of quiet but he played pretty well. During his 1st gig with us he disappeared between sets. We set out looking for him and found him in a stall, passed out... turns out he had a bit of a problem with a needle.
I hate when they do that for sure.
Dang, that sounds serious. Did he keep the gig long?
Quote from: markdr on April 03, 2006, 01:09 PM
Yesterday was the first day we went to somewhere other than my house to practice. They bring their guitars and amps in in about 3 seconds flat and are already playing, leaving me to lug in my stuff one by one. "Hey guys, can you help me bring in my stuff" I say.
Guitarist 1: "Yeah, right after I set up" (looks to me like he is already set up)
Guitarist 2: "Nah."
I can't believe that guys who are supposed to be your friends would refuse to help you like that. :o
Quote
I don't get too much of that, but 'Guitarist 2' tends to speed up during songs a lot, which usually forces me to play faster which generally causes me to screw it up, and although its not directly blamed at me, I know he and 'Guitarist 1' thinks its my fault. Its usually only me and Bassist that can actually tell that he was going to fast (not that he listens, he just insists he was playing it right).
</rant>
I've actually pulled out a metronome at a rehearsal to prove my point.... You know, it's funny how some players will actually get hostile when I've done that. :)
Quote from: DRWM on April 03, 2006, 01:44 PM
Dang, that sounds serious. Did he keep the gig long?
Nah, his girlfriend took him to a hospital and we never saw him again.
Unfortunately that was par for the course, we could never keep a guitar player, for about year we would get all these different players in, most could play but had tons of problems that prevented them from functioning in society. We weren't playing anything heavy either it was kind of a blues influenced rock band.
Real Spinal Tap stuff..The only one who had a job was "Steve" the guy who was a census taker...he was cool, no drug problems but no car. So... he moved 40 minutes away. Which meant about 3 hrs and 4 busses to get to Hollywood, that didn't last long.
Quote from: Dave Lemonds on March 29, 2006, 11:38 AM
Sometimes you have to learn to deal with such characters because that is what you are being paid for! :(
I couldn't agree more....I've lived through all these complaints and keep coming back for more. Why? Because I've learned that to work as a musician you've got to put up with the things you hate or sit at home. There's no music satisfaction or money made sitting at home. You can practice and be the best drummer in the world, but still end up playing with these situations. Being in a band is very much like a marriage.... But I'd still rather put up with these things than stay home because I'm upset about every little detail. That's a lonely musician and a broke one. Not my style, I've got to be playing for "live/breathing" people. That requires putting up with the same BS as the audience. Musicians can sometimes irritate me, but then so can my wife and my boss....
And Louis, I love your "brushes" idea. Thanks, I've got just the guy to use that on. 8)
How about this one?
During rehearsal, you have something to say (often to the guitarist), and in the middle of your sentence he starts playing his loud electric guitar -- while giving you that absent "I'm not listening to you; I'm in my own guitar world" look.
That drives me insane!
Quote from: DaveFromChicago on March 27, 2006, 07:40 PM
I can't stand guys who constantly fiddle. I've worked with one who is forever pushing his effects pedal switches, [plays power chord], switches cables, [plays power chord], turns some knobs, [plays power chord], then its back to the pedal switches and the process starts over again. Although frustrating, its actually kind of entertaining to watch.
Oh yes, tuning on the other hand, is something that gets dealt with if there's still time.
Being a guitar player, I too get a little frustrated with anyone who constantly messes with their gear / settings / tuning. It's a sign of someone who lacks confidence and is nervous. Fiddling with the stuff gives the impression that he's not happy with something, which will provide an excuse for sounding bad if something goes awry. Our bass player does it, and it's annoying.
Oddly enough, on the subject of guitarists playing too loud, it's been my experience that our drummer can't play any way but louder! On the other hand, maybe he's trying to tell me something? Maybe we should talk.
Quote from: Smitty on April 04, 2006, 03:17 PM
How about this one?
During rehearsal, you have something to say (often to the guitarist), and in the middle of your sentence he starts playing his loud electric guitar -- while giving you that absent "I'm not listening to you; I'm in my own guitar world" look.
That drives me insane!
Suggestion: Count off a tune while he's in mid sentence and see if he does it again.
Quote from: Shoeless on April 06, 2006, 09:41 PM
Suggestion: Count off a tune while he's in mid sentence and see if he does it again.
I've done this on stage, when the Bass player and myself are ready to go, but when the guitarists don't begin the tune and we have to go into the "repair" mode it only ends up looking like we screwed up. Lately if we see the others dic*ing around, we just go into a Bass and Drum groove that they can come into and that fit's the tune. It get's our point across. don't even get me started on the lack of help from others it's a real sore spot these days
Quote from: DRWM on March 28, 2006, 04:22 PM
You know Nutty, the no smoking in public buildings law has been around here (Southern California) for about 10 years now I think. It's a great thing to play a bar and not feel like I smoked a pack of cigs the next day. I love it.
Sorry for the near hijack everyone. ;)
Back to topic,
I thought of another guitar player annoyance. Not really a live thing, but when they get all weird about recording solos. I think we sat through about 34 takes of a 12 bar solo last time we recorded, luckily it is my dad's home studio, so the time was free, but dang man, I thought it was a good solo 33 takes ago. :)
Tempe and Chandler, AZ have no-smoking laws, but all the college students that want to smoke drive 10 minutes north to Scottsdale. Because of that, Tempe has really died compared to 5 years ago. I wish they'd pass a state law and then all the cities would have fair advantage. Students wouldn't drive as far if they couldn't smoke there either.
On the other point:
Since most of our recording is done at my home on my computer, I'm the producer and engineer. I'm the one in our band that has the most experience with this stuff, having worked in studios and gone to school for recording. I have the guitarist play until he feels satisfied, then I work magic on it, splicing and editing and manipulating the track until it's perfect.
Quote from: Louis on March 29, 2006, 08:03 AM
OK, am I the only one who keeps a pair of 2" paint brushes in their hardware case for these occasions? Jeez, you guys are missing a lot of fun by not having paint brushes handy when the guitar player ask for you to use brushes.
I have brushes in my stick bag. The only time they get used is at acoustic gigs with my cocktail kit. Other than that, I usually have to play as loud as possible just to be heard. On New Year's Eve we were headlining at a crappy bar (our singer set it up 2 weeks previously because he can't think more than 2 weeks in advance). For weekends, they usually have the drums mic'ed, but not tonight. Our lead guitarist decided HE was what was best for the band: Crank it to 11! Audience members were coming up yelling at me to play louder. I'm playing as loud as I can; if I hit harder it won't make my drums louder, only possibly crack cymbals or dent the heads. Instead of yelling at me to turn up, yell at the guitarist to TURN DOWN!!
My biggest peeves:
--TURN DOWN!
--Too much distortion
--Blaming me for tempo changes/dragging songs (If I keep the correct tempo and they slow down, from the audience standpoint I sped up) >:(
--Not helping carry gear. They're not too bad about this. Our singer/guitarist only has one load to carry, so he helps. Our old lead guitarist had as much or more than I did, so he didn't help, which is understandable (he was a stompbox dancer with 4x12 cab and 3-4 rackmounted effects. Holy 80's hair band sound, Batman! :o)
I help the guitarists out and they help me out. I also help our singer since he likes to use distortion. I tell him that a little goes a long way. Right now he has an Epiphone Casino going through a Fender Deluxe, and it has such a nice, fat tone that really doesn't need distortion, so we add just a little. But that clean sound is amazing.
I find this strain of being to be a troubled one, full of self doubt, compensating with a volume knob, as the tooling department is probably below par shall we say!
THEY WILL NEVER LEARN< IT TAKES PERSON WITH A BRAIN TO PLAY WITH CONSIDERATION OF OTHER BAND MEMBERS!
What is it about having a guitar around your neck that makes one blind???
The other day at practice my guitarist started a song (that starts with the guitar riff), while I was standing a foot away from her. Then turned around shocked when I didn't start on time and bumped into me! Yeah - I can play from 15 feet away now! DUH!
Hey, I am a Guitarist, and have been reading this thread with great amusement. A thread was originally created in http://guitar.zentao.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39389]this site, based on this thread, for the perusal of 11,770 shred head guitarists, (who love fiddling with effects and playing at ear-splittingly loud volumes at varying tempo's).
What you may find amusing is http://guitar.zentao.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39393]this thread, it might be educational for both parties :o
Keep the beat
Tim
And also, to those of you who aren't familiar with the guitar, its an incredibly hard instrument to learn properly. I can't keep a beat on a drumkit, so I appreciate the talent that goes into it. To us a guitar needs to be in tune, it needs to be intonated, and we need to set the best tone we can get, otherwise theres always that something missing, which detracts from the tightness of the band.
Quote from: 0point1watts on April 13, 2006, 06:00 PM
. . . To us a guitar needs to be in tune, it needs to be intonated, and we need to set the best tone we can get . . .
What's the difference between the three?
Quote from: DaveFromChicago on April 13, 2006, 08:03 PM
What's the difference between the three?
Drummer much? ;)
Kidding. Intonation aids in being in tune in the end. So I'd be willing to write those two off as the same. But tone is very different.
Tuning would be in head tension. Tone would be in head type, wood type, etc.
[size=-2]In case anyone is interested, intonation is set at the bridge of the guitar. It determines whether or not a string is in tune all the way up the fingerboard. While tuning (as with the tuner on the head stock) is generally tuning the open string alone. The position of the bridge saddle determines the vibration length of the string. So while it might be E when open, it needs to be e at the 12th fret, the halfway point, as well. Making sure the strings vibration length is right ensures the 12th fret is exactly 1/2 the vibration length. [/size]
QuoteThe position of the bridge saddle determines the vibration length of the string. So while it might be E when open, it needs to be e at the 12th fret, the halfway point, as well. Making sure the strings vibration length is right ensures the 12th fret is exactly 1/2 the vibration length.
MMmmmmm......... Physics. :)
Just got back from a band practice. At the beginning I got talking to my guitarist's dad. He tells me he likes my set up, then, looking at the guitars says the infamous line "well at least you don't have to tune drums like you do guitars". I explained otherwise.
It didn't annoy me at the time but it does a bit now. Probably because for the last two weeks I've been fine-tuning and tweaking my drums to get them to sound nice. Also, honestly, guitars you can just use a tuner with to get to one set tuning. With drums there are millions of combinations, with no right or wrong - so why is it everyone knows you can tune guitars and a lot of people don't know you tune drums??
</RANT>
Quote from: markdr on April 14, 2006, 01:36 PM
"well at least you don't have to tune drums like you do guitars". I explained otherwise.
</RANT>
I think people should tell some guitar players that. ;D
Guitarists who insist on hitting my cymbals with the headstock of his guitar. The last one that did that almost got his a$$ kicked. He didn't do it anymore.
Quote from: TMe on March 28, 2006, 10:41 AM
- Hit my cymbals during the set and I'll practice paradiddles on your guitar.
thats friggin hillarious.
when they don't keep track of how many times they play a riff, or when they don't even listen to the drums and get off....
play to loud
not help with my gear
sit around and do nothing in sound check
thinking their better than everyone else cause their standing up front on the stage. ;D
I haven't seen this problem brought up much but have any of you had a guirtarist with fast fingers that would shred constinatly? I mean not just during whole songs but while the rest of the band tried to talk? It gets old real fast man. That and being arrogant *&%*&s. Most of what I've dealt with in the presence of guitarist is their maturity level, or rather the lack of maturity at all.
The last practice I had with a metalcore band, when I was a vocalist, went a little something like this:
I had brought a girl with me to practice since I had to give her a ride to somewhere afterwards. She was a pianist and also played percussion (marimba, hand percussion and such) so in the writting of a new song she made a suggestion to the lead guitarist based on the scale he was using for the solo and mentioned that two beats of silence in a section of the song would sound pretty cool before breaking into a breakdown. She made it clear to everyone that it was only a suggestion, but the next thing you know we're having a band meeting about whether or not women are allowed to the practice. (God forbid a woman could have a better understanding of the feeling of a hardcore song than men) The bassist, drummer, and I had no problem with her and thought that her suggestions sounded good. The guitarists however both felt threated.
The rythm section and I just decided the argument was a joke and we just wanted to rock. So without the guitarists we went back to play our songs. Next thing you know while we were recording a song (with a crappy a-track we used just to hear what we sounded like) one, or both (I couldn't tell since the lead guitarist felt that he should have his volume three times as loud as the rest of the band), of the guitarist(s) were playing something completely different. Shredding or doing whatever that just cut our usual two-three hour practice to about an hour and a half.
How about that man?
That'd be like a fellow percussionist comes up to me and suggests that instead of filling I should hold back and play with more musicality. No I think I'll just do a little Rich style solo so I can piss you off.
It goes for all stuck up musicians who think they are better than everyone else. I wish they'd get over themselves! Anyways, my rant is over.
I joke about young drummers needing to be taught that guitarists aren't our friends, but it's just a joke. Truth is, guitarists, by and large, are no more egomaniacal than any given group of drummers. There are plenty of drummers out there giving us a bad reputation.
I do have one issue with some guitarists, although I think I've only played with one of these types, and it was in a worship band -- I didn't really have room to correct the issue. It is really annoying to the rest of the music listening world when guitarists who idolize Stevie Ray Vaughn think they need to play an homage to Stevie in every solo.
Now, there's nothing wrong with putting Stevie on a pedstal. He was a great blues guitarist. But in most situations, I'd much rather here an homage to Steve Lukather or Larry Carlton, something melodic, something thoughtful, something that fits in with the stinkin' song.
This is just like drummers who insist on playing over the bar on every fill, particularly irritating when done in the transition from the last bar of the verse to the first bar of the chorus. Or using commercial wedges to pry loose space for their latest learned Gadd trick. I say save that stuff for when you're a vested member of Karizma, or Pat Metheny is giving you "the look" on stage to take off on the vamp. I think it's great that so many drummers are getting into the Weckl books, but you never heard Weckl play complex 32nd-note passages into the keyboard bridge on Madonna's Like a Virgin. Funny thing, even a young Weckl (and presumably the producer) considered that inappropriate.
I think what this thread is begging for is a musician's code of conduct policy:
- The Golden Rule applies on stage as it does off
- No guitarist/drummer/bassist/singer/keyboardist/horn player/whatever is an island
- No matter where you stand on stage, always strive to make good music.
My guys are never ready for the next song.I'm ready to click in and have to wait for them to tune after every song or one will play a tune not relative to our song list while the others are tuning or the infamous cigarette/drink fix.And of course they have an excuse for their unprofessionalism.......
LOL at all those things. Im in my first band and about 8 months ago we collectively sacked the lead guitarist. Now Im in control ;D and if they dont do it right I shout, next is broken drum sticks and if they still ignore my stern commands theres always ..........the mallets :o ;D
I do not have a shortage of good guitar players here to worry about it. They are all good and all of them have their own sound and style, just like we do. I do believe if you have a drinking guitar player, you will have disagreements that should not have happen. Expecially when you are the lead vocalist too. It becomes like, compete for the spot light to them.
The ones that are the most humble seem to work the best and some of the most humble are some of the best..
Nutty
You guys make a lot of great points that I agree with.
At every gig we play, my lead singer/guitar player always sets up his amp immediately and starts playing really loudly (without helping carry in anyone else's equipment) while the rest of us are still setting up.
In general, I hate bands that noodle *without purpose before their sets.
*without purpose meaning not getting level or sounds and just playing to be heard by people in the audience...and they think...LOOK AT ME, IM ON A STAGE, AND PLAYING MY INSTRUEMENT.
I can play guitar, but when I would, I'd always want the drummer to be louder. That's why back in the 1950s when guitar amps were made to not go louder than acoustic percussion! Hint hint! Dynamic range is the key!