Topic: Buddy Rich - The Light Side, The Dark Side, and Somewhere in between

[drumz1]

We all know that Bernard "Buddy" Rich was THE drummer of drummers.  He was truly incomparable in the drumming world.  A lot of things were said of him, both good and bad.

Almost every big-name drummer who met Buddy had words of praise for him.  Click the link below for some quotes:

http://www.buddyrich.com/tribute.html

Then, there were the ones in his band who suffered at times when Buddy didn't feel that they were living up to his standards.  Here is the link for the actual text of the infamous "Bus Tape".  CAUTION - be aware that the text uses very vulgar language.  Buddy was known to "tell it like it is", and his vocabulary sometimes wouldn't fit in with the Church congregation, if you get my meaning.

http://www.bridgeboymusic.com/billyboy/mybuddy.htm


I personally went to five or six of Buddy's concerts, and like everyone else there, was absolutely mesmerized at his ability on the kit.  Once, I went through the autograph line after the show.  He was sitting at the table in the front part of the bus, talking animatedly to all the fans, signing everything from drum heads to admission ticket stubs.  When I stepped up to get his autograph, I said, "After seeing you play like that, I think I'll go out and burn my drums and get out of the business!"  He grinned at me and said "No, man, keep playin', don't ever quit - you'll hate yourself if you do that!"  

Well, I haven't quit yet, Buddy.  And I'm glad I took your advice.


Rest in peace, Superdrums.  (Click the link below)

http://www.seeing-stars.com/ImagePages/BuddyRichGravePhoto.shtml

Regards,
drumz1

[Han Steevo]

I think I'm the one drummer on this planet who doesn't think Buddy was as good as all the hype.

[Louis Russell]

Maybe not that good, but it was Buddy and Ringo who brought drumming to the masses.  Two of the reasons I am a drummer anyway.

[felix]

 

Love Buddy...when I feel I'm ready I'm really looking forward to the day when I can study his playing.

[organik]

how can you *not* think he was good? have you ever heard him play? i remember hearing people claim his only skill was fast singles, but if you check out westside story suite or something along those lines, it'll become pretty clear that it extends beyond that.. =)

i definately agree that his main contribution was his influence though, from all accounts he sounds like a great showman. too bad us drummers dont have the front seat like we used to =(

[RelientKngOdrums]

     buddy was a true revolutionist. amazing player. one of my favorite his many skills was his wood-pecker solo's. Although he was pretty much the biggest jerk you could imagine to his band members, he gave an unsurpassed amount of creativity to the drumming world.  To this day, i don't see his hand speed being surpassed. What a mad man!  

[Han Steevo]

I would bet the two big V's (Virgil and Vinnie) have faster hands - not like that makes a drummer good, anyhow.

[Carn]

I would bet the two big V's (Virgil and Vinnie) have faster hands - not like that makes a drummer good, anyhow.

Donati certainly not has faster hands, according to my own experience with his clinics, and according to jim chapin;
"the guy practices 8 hours a day, but his hands arent all that"

About colaiuta, man, Vinnie is great, he does stuff buddy probably not even dreamt of, but I`m sure Rich would open a can of woopass if it came down to snare work

[RelientKngOdrums]

I would bet the two big V's (Virgil and Vinnie) have faster hands - not like that makes a drummer good, anyhow.

absolutly not... i've been to clinics with both Virgil and Vinnie... no comparison... and they'll tell you that themselves. that's just crazy talk

[Han Steevo]

Well, I've never heard or seen Buddy as fast as I've both heard and seen the two V's, so maybe it was a fluke when it happened.

[RelientKngOdrums]

Well, I've never heard or seen Buddy as fast as I've both heard and seen the two V's, so maybe it was a fluke when it happened.

Seems to me that you really haven't ever listened to buddy. I mean really listened, not just hearing and seeing some clips. I mean listening to a whole cd and a whole video. Have you ever gotten any of his Big Band cd's? any of his videos? if you did, i think you'd see the error in your resoning

[Han Steevo]

Or maybe you should try the same with the guys I'm talking about?  And let me add something else - no, I don't think those guys are the fastest guys around, because I know of DCI guys that are incredible with their hands.  Then again, that's all they can do.

It just baffles me that so many people are hung up on Buddy when there were other drummers then and since then that have been just as innovative and incredible - Buddy wasn't the first, just the first one that brought drumming into the limelight (so people have been saying).  If it wasn't him, it would have been someone else.  I never have and never will understand the Buddy phenomenon.  Oh well.

[RelientKngOdrums]

Or maybe you should try the same with the guys I'm talking about?  And let me add something else - no, I don't think those guys are the fastest guys around, because I know of DCI guys that are incredible with their hands.  Then again, that's all they can do.

It just baffles me that so many people are hung up on Buddy when there were other drummers then and since then that have been just as innovative and incredible - Buddy wasn't the first, just the first one that brought drumming into the limelight (so people have been saying).  If it wasn't him, it would have been someone else.  I never have and never will understand the Buddy phenomenon.  Oh well.

  (enough said)

[AndyDierker]

This thread is pretty weird.

I think Buddy is great, but wanan know what always bugged me? His drum sound! I know it's a silly thing - I've just got no appreciation or taste for the old "vintage" drums. Or maybe it was the poor miking abilities back when he was playing. THey just always seemed like thuddy, papery, weak drums.

I'm just a 19 year old kid, and every drumset I've ever heard a blitzkrieg awesome player play has been a super-nice 100% maple drumset, so I want to disclaimer my statement by saying that I genuinely know jack-sh!t when it comes to vintage drums, or their appeal, or just about anything really. And I thought Buddy was a great player - GREAT. I loved the way he played his bass drum with a stick. He probably wasn'y the first, but teh first time I saw that I thought it was hilarious.

[drumz1]

Or maybe you should try the same with the guys I'm talking about?  And let me add something else - no, I don't think those guys are the fastest guys around, because I know of DCI guys that are incredible with their hands.  Then again, that's all they can do.

It just baffles me that so many people are hung up on Buddy when there were other drummers then and since then that have been just as innovative and incredible - Buddy wasn't the first, just the first one that brought drumming into the limelight (so people have been saying).  If it wasn't him, it would have been someone else.  I never have and never will understand the Buddy phenomenon.  Oh well.

Some of what you are saying is true.  There are lots of drummers who may, indeed, have the speedy sticks that Buddy possessed, but not too many have the finesse, chops, and imagination that he had.  You admit that some drummers are incredible with their hands, but that's all they can do.  Well, what you may learn is, there is a lot more to drumming than just being fast on the kit.  Rich had it ALL, and if you take the time to visit some of the current drum artist's webpages, you may find out that most of them were highly influenced by Buddy.  His technique on the snare alone raises the bar for all of us.  Watch some of his videos, especially the early ones.  I won't mention which website, but there is one which starts with the letter "k" that you can download a video of Buddy on a TV show in 1965.  Do a search for "video" on "Jerry Lewis" and look for a drum battle between him and Buddy Rich, then download it.

When you watch Buddy doing his solo, notice that when he is cross-sticking between the snare and the floor toms, sometimes he will cross the left stick UNDER the right hand, and other times he will cross the left stick OVER the right hand, all at a blazing speed.  Then ask yourself if you have ever seen the drummers you mentioned in your post do THAT.

And please don't try to blow it all off by saying "If it wasn't him, it would have been somebody else".  That's a copout, and you know it.  Sure there was "somebody else", such as Krupa, Roach, Mousey, and many, many more who influenced Buddy when he was coming up the ranks.  

I don't know how old you are, but it appears that you must be pretty young by your posts.  No offense here, but you really need to do some homework on the alltime "Greats" of drumming.  There is a reason that Buddy Rich was known as the world's greatest drummer, and I just don't think you have it figured out entirely.

Regards,
drumz1

[Louis Russell]

 If it wasn't him, it would have been someone else.  I never have and never will understand the Buddy phenomenon.  Oh well.

Yes, there probably would have been someone else if not Buddy!  The thing is, Buddy is the one who did it.  Take the light bulb for instance, the one Edison made was really dim and didn't last long.  By today's standards it was a total waste, BUT Edison was the one who invented the light bulb.  Even if his is not great by todays standards he still gets credit for his work.  Its the same with Buddy.

[Han Steevo]

When you watch Buddy doing his solo, notice that when he is cross-sticking between the snare and the floor toms, sometimes he will cross the left stick UNDER the right hand, and other times he will cross the left stick OVER the right hand, all at a blazing speed.  Then ask yourself if you have ever seen the drummers you mentioned in your post do THAT.

Virgil can do that... and more.  Much more.

[Carn]

Han, ever went to a donati clinic? Or did you just "download video's of the net"?

Donati has great chops, but man, He isnt -that- great, I saw jim chapin 3 meters in front of me, that man is 83, and has a hand technique that donati can't touch.

Almost everyone can be a great chops drummer, if they practice insane amounts of time, but there are things that dont appear trough practice, and Buddy Rich has enough of those things that still stand out today.

[tainteddrummer]

wow...  i didn't know ppl from that time period could possibly curse that much... i can't even say @$%# in front of my grandmother.... weird...  
   .. anyway.. back to the point... the stuff i heard  by buddy so far amazes me. his solo's are awesome, amazing speed, great fills, good time....
  i don't know how any drummer could NOT think of him as a great influence

[Han Steevo]

Han, ever went to a donati clinic? Or did you just "download video's of the net"?

Donati has great chops, but man, He isnt -that- great, I saw jim chapin 3 meters in front of me, that man is 83, and has a hand technique that donati can't touch.

Almost everyone can be a great chops drummer, if they practice insane amounts of time, but there are things that dont appear trough practice, and Buddy Rich has enough of those things that still stand out today.

Haven't been in person, but I have three clinics in their entirety on videotape - bootlegs.  I'd say that's as good as being there, especially since I can go back to see exactly what he's doing.