Topic: Recording

[bonejoy]

Fair and amusing comments Chrisso!  

The kid is on a tight budget and needs some guidence on getting a good enough recording for his bands needs.  Imagine how pissed off you'd be if you blew all of the $1300 that you'd been saving and got a crappy recording....You'd be stuck with it until you could afford to go into the studio again.....

I don't disagree with any comments on this thread, but in Funkadrummers case, I think his money would be better spent on home recording stuff which does an adequate job.  He and the band will learn a lot about recording and mixing techniques this way, and eventually, when they have more money, they can go in a studio and know exactly what to do, as well as working 'with' the engineer to get what they want rather than relying totally on an engineer because of lack of knowledge/recording experience.

I would imagine Chrisso, that you're in a more privalidged position than Funkadrummer.  I'm somewhere in the middle, but closer to Funka....my band isn't signed yet as we haven't been together that long and are stiill in that 'writing' period.  We don't have advance money to splash out on nice recording studios, and we're not rich, so, with around £600 worth of gear, we record everything ourselves and the results are satisfactory....

[Chris Whitten]

Hey Bonejoy.
No worries.....and I take everything you've said on board.
Just to say, the only thing I disagreed with was the C1000. The mic I recommended cost about $150 more and is by all accounts a VERY high quality piece of kit.
At the end of the day, once Funkadrummer has a look at the recommended options I'm sure he can decide how much he wants to spend.

[KevinD]

First of all make sure the band is well rehearsed, you don't want to do more than 3 takes. Don't rely on "fixing it in the mix." Even with Pro Tools that stuff takes a long time and lots of money.
Then make sure your drums are properly prepared (good info in this thread and on this site about that).

The other factor is human.  I've done a lot of recording projects over the past few years. Various types of equipment, everything from home studios to professional studios using everything from Pro Tools to 2 inch. I must say that the most important factor in getting a good sound was the person who was running the board. A good engineer is priceless, more important than the gear on which you are recording.
 
I had the opportunity to record at a pretty well known NY studio last year. The aritist I was supporting was paying good money to record there. I was kind of psyched to hear what my drums would sound like in a "professional environment."

Great room, impressive gear all around.

The session went well but the engineer was a house guy that came along with the package. He was only half interested in the tunes that we were laying down. He did his job but that was about it, no interaction, it felt like an assembly line. We were not on the Hot 100 so I'm sure he didn't have much interest in us. The resulting sound was less than stellar, I'd gotten better drum sounds using much cheaper gear in less professional "looking" studios.

6 months later with my own band I ended up at the same studio (long story but I was outvoted). The difference was that we brought along our own engineer. He has years under his belt as a musician and engineer. Same drums and set up on my part but the results are like night and day. You would think one session was recorded in a decent home studio and the other in a 10 Million dollar facility. Of course we paid him but the results were more than worth it.

The point is, make sure that the person you have behind the glass knows there stuff. You can make some really good sounding recordings on reasonably priced gear if you or the knob tweaker take the time to learn how to coax the best sounds out of the room and the gear. It takes some education, time and experimentation to arrive at a comfortable palce, just like playing drums.

Given $1300 and a good engineer I'm pretty confident you can get a professonal sounding 4 or 5 tune demo out of it. (excluding mastering and duplication and artwork and those other things one doesn't quite think about on the way in :-)

[Mark Schlipper]

i gotta say guys....to the layman listening to your music...if they like your music, they won't care how it was recorded or what mics were used!  

Ill be the first to say that good music translates across any medium.  But I can also say from experience, that a good medium does help that music better.   If you can buy a snare that sounds amazing for the same price you can buy one that sounds like crap which would you buy?   Seems simple.   Thats the discussion we're having here.   If you have $1300 to spend on a recording, do you go to the studio, or buy the gear and do it at home.   We're weighing the options to see which one is the way to go.  

Maybe this has developed into a 'who knows most about mics' issue.....

When discussing home recording, as this was steered toward for legitimate reasons, you have to talk mics.    Maybe we got into too much detail, but had it not seemed valid and relatively on topic, I wouldve taken it off board.  I do that all the time.   I mentioned a mic that is popular with home recordists, chrisso offered a counter opinion on said mic, we made sure the air was clear and we left.  

[Chris Whitten]

here, here.  

[bonejoy]

OK....I shall be eating humble pie today  

[vertijoe]

Mics:  I just bought a shure drum mic pack

     3 - SM57
     1 - Beta 52 (unbelievable kick mic; good for bass guitar as well).

     I also previously bought a KSM109 - addequate condensor mic as overhead.

Over the years I've had "pro engineers" record real junk for me.  Doing this yourself, your going to create some awful sounding stuff.  But, if you want to learn you'll only do it by yourself.  It sounds like you're doing this mostly for fun.  Do it yourself, you'll have a great time.

[felix]

Kudo's to the Audix D6.  I bought one fridayat G.C. b4 my club act ($200) and got a couple compliments on my kick sound- very "sticky" sounding with big low end.  Slightly more modern sounding than the D-112.  Going to have a bass drum mic shoot out tonight in my studio with a client and friend of mine on a 18x22's transition badge ludwig kick.  Should be way kool.  Well made, good sounding mic Mark, thanks for the tip.

[Mark Schlipper]

Kudo's to the Audix D6.  I bought one fridayat G.C.

We will all be anxiously awaiting a big proper review

[windhorse]

Kudo's to the Audix D6.  

My teacher recommends two D2s mounted overhead the distance that the drum is tall, for congas. I'd assume the same for toms, but cymbals probably have their own issue. He's an Audix rep and swears they're the best - in a biased sort of way  

[Drummz]

I can vouch for the Audix stuff. I've got a D6 and 4 D4's. It is really good equipment and they have done their homework. It is nice to just basically plug in and not have to worry about getting a good sound.

I just made a killer score today. Picked up an Audix D1 for my snare on clearance at Guitar Center for $69!! They are normally $129.

[Chris Whitten]

He's an Audix rep and swears they're the best - in a biased sort of way  

'Biased' is probably correct.
I've yet to work in a pro level studio that owned any Audix mics.
I wouldn't be surprised to find the Audix is the 'best' mic in it's price range though. By all accounts they are very useful home recording mics and seem to be well respected in live use.  

[felix]

I'm not much on big reviews but I will say I compared the Audix D6 to a D112 and an EV RE 20 for kicks .

D-6 Definitely today's sound.  Big bump in the mic's frequency curve at 60Hz up to 100 Hz and then it's scooped out with another bump at 1 K.
You don't need any eq with this thing.  Set it up and get that sticky "Lars" sound.  Live, it just kicks a$$ for today's rock.  Period.  You won't believe it.  Not my first choice for classic rock.

D-112 More of retro sound- kinda boomy, little drier, perfect for that vibe.  Not as much attack, needs to be eq'd for more modern sounds.
Analog type of sound.

EV RE-20 Flattest of the three, very accurate dynamic mic, needs eq- some people swear by them for kick, good attack.  Lot's of highs to sweep around with, then you crank in the bass.

I was extremely skeptical, but the mic's were all run thru focusrite pre's and a flat monitoring system at 24 bit resolutions.  "What you see is what you get".  I didn't notice any noise from any of the mics.

Don't underestimate the D-6.  For 200 bucks it's a no brainer.

[vertijoe]

Ok, maybe I've been living in a cave too long.  But I seem to be the only one relying on shure.  I just bought that Beta 52.  I used it on that big 14x26 kick, and it recorded as big as a house.  Even the, flat, un-eq-ed (I know not a word) track on a dry digital recorder sounded just like the drum acoustically.  So, what am I missing?  Does anyone else have any experience with this mic?

[Chris Whitten]

D-6 Definitely today's sound.  
You don't need any eq with this thing.  Set it up and get that sticky "Lars" sound.  Live, it just kicks a$$ for today's rock.  

Felix,
I consider myself to be a modern rock drummer, but I can't stand that clicky bass drum tone.
I can see it would work better live, helping the definition of the bass drum in boomy environments.
Studiowise, I haven't really come up with an elegant solution, so I'm not arguing in favour of the D112 or RE20 particularly.
I prefer a more natural bass drum sound. Therefore I wouldn't want to use a mic which imposed a 'modern' characteristic. That's probably why most pro studios don't use the D6 either.

[Mark Schlipper]

I wouldn't want to use a mic which imposed a 'modern' characteristic. That's probably why most pro studios don't use the D6 either.

Have you been in more than two pro studios in the last 6 months?   That mic has only been around for a year, tops.    Its brand spankin new really.   Audix are pro quality, trust me.   Engineers (remember I am one) are often skeptical of trying new things when they have something they know works.    But a good pro studio will use what it takes to get the sound.   And sometimes that means a mic with a specific voice.    

Also, the D6 was designed for exactly what it is.   If you want something more transparent, try the D4, which many pro studios do have in the cabinet.    

[Bart Elliott]

Audix D6 is a great mic ... and so is the Audio Technica 2500.

And several "pro" studios I've worked in do have the Audix D6, although I've not personally any other Audix mics.

If it works ... use it. Don't get caught up in the price or the brand name.

[felix]

I just don't like shure's cause they are made in mexico anymore.  No offense, but I cotton to domestic stuff.

Chrisso, just get one and be hip ok?  Don't think, do it.

[felix]

And if you don't like it, take it back.

[Chris Whitten]

Ouch! If you're going to get pithy, what level of 'pro studio' do you normally hang out in?
The kind I visit often use $5,000+ vintage Neumann's for bass drum.
Seriously though, I'm getting a little drum recording mic set up together. Therefore over the last 18 months I've been heavily researching a lot of mics.
I read a lot of audio forums and
I tend to talk to a lot of busy pro engineers and producers. A few people have recommended the Audix mics.
When I checked the opinions of the people I actually trust, they had a story that chimed with Felix's, that the mic is hyped in certain frequencies.
That's a downer for the people I trust.
I'm not saying it should apply to you or Felix.
Whether it's a slight over exaggeration I'm not sure, but the last thing I want is for my bass drum to sound like Lars Ulrich....or Limp Bizzkit.....or any of those 'modern' rock productions.