Topic: Recording

[Chris Whitten]

Ok, I guess who cares really, but
these are the studios I tend to work in most:
http://www.airstudios.com/technical/lists/equipmics.shtml
www.angelstudios.co.uk
http://www.rockfieldstudios.com/
http://www.2khzstudios.co.uk/equipment.php

I think you know Mark I'm semi retired, but I've worked at The Angel and 2khz recently.
The others I'm sure keep their websites up to date.
No Audix mics in evidence I'm afraid.
As far as I'm concerned, they are probably great mics of a certain level. I must be a snob, because I want to use the BEST possible mics I can on my drum recordings. I guess I'm probably missing out on something with these Audix mics.......I can't even afford $5k plus Neumann's anyway.
But the bottom line is I hear the Audix bass drum mic has a 'shaped' sound. I don't believe that sound is to my taste.
YMMV as they say.
 

[felix]

I had to write back and apologize.  I've been a dik to everybody lately, no sleep.  SORRY.

Anyways.  The sound is not "clicky" as it is "sticky".  I hate clicky and love sticky.  
Check it out for yourself.

They prolly wouldn't sound as good as a 5K neumann.   They darn well better not.  But for a gig or quick session, you put the D6 mic in the kick, walk back to the booth and boom... there's a kick sound that is really impressive.  Plus you have all your headroom.  Live, same thing, boom, there it is.  

[vertijoe]

I just don't like shure's cause they are made in mexico anymore.  No offense, but I cotton to domestic stuff.

None taken.  In fact that's good information.  Although, alot of the great recording mics are German, and not domestic; ie Neumann and Sennheiser.

[Chris Whitten]

I had to write back and apologize.  I've been a dik to everybody lately, no sleep.  SORRY.

Anyways.  The sound is not "clicky" as it is "sticky".  I hate clicky and love sticky.  
Check it out for yourself.

No need to apologise as far as I'm concerned.
This is a genuine difference of opinion. That's what forums are about......until things get over heated. My apologies for that.  
I'd definitely consider the Audix for live. In many ways it sounds perfect.
I have no personal experience of recording with it, so I'm probably talking out of my bottom.
The studios I work in (yes again...yawn...) are still using the old D12/112, RE20 or Senn 421 mics for bass drum. The slight difference is they often position a U47 Neumann a couple of feet in front.
There are some great U47 clones around, so I've picked one up. I'm still mulling the interior mic option however. There must be something better than the old faithfulls?
My recent experience tells me not........but I should try and check out the Audix I suppose.
Gotta say I was really put off by the Ulrich comment though, 'sticky' or not (I've heard similar comments elsewhere).

[Bart Elliott]

Ouch! If you're going to get pithy, what level of 'pro studio' do you normally hang out in?
The kind I visit often use $5,000+ vintage Neumann's for bass drum.

I don't hang out in any 'pro studio' ... but I work in some. And I'm not trying to be pithy about all of this.

My point is not that these studios ONLY use the $5k vintage Neumann mics, but anything that it takes to get the sound they need. I've worked in studios with similar set ups ... but you know what, they still have some "cheap" mics around that are used on specific ocassions. I've worked in studios that, although they have the multi-thousand dollar vintage mics, might through a SM57 on the kick just because of the sound they want ... and the color that a particular mic can bring.

Sure, I want the best mic to reproduce the sound of my drums with the least amount of coloring, and the most amount of raw transparency.

Let's also not forget that you can have the greatest mic in the world, but if you don't have the mic-pre to go with it ... well, forget it.

I think it's silly that we are arguing the validity of a mic because the top studios in the world don't have one. You might as well say that if you don't work in one of these top studios then you aren't as good as ______ .  I don't think we need to get all haughty over this. We can only have real opinions on things that we have experience in. If we haven't heard a particular mic then how can we have an opinion on it ... really?

Perhaps there is no need to look elsewhere if you have the bomb of mics; the best of the best. But let's be realistic here. We've got a guy looking to buy some recording mics. Discounting a mic because it's not being used by individuals/studios who use, let alone afford, the $5k+ mics is just nuts. Let's all get our feet back on planet earth here.

Perhaps I got into this discussion a little late. I was hoping to bring balance, but seem to only have stirred things up.

Also ... the UK sound is very different than the USA. Always has been, always will be. And I love the UK sound.

[Christopher]

I wouldnt be surprised to not see a D6 in an established studio. I would bet that most top notch studios are not in the practice of running right out and getting all the newest stuff as a constant practice.

They are successful already and have gotten that way by using the equipment that they have. It shouldnt reflect poorly on Audix. Im sure that in the coming years, we will see more and more of them in the top places. Theyre great mics.

If you want something more transparent, try the D4,    

I can vouch for that. I have one. It purely reproduces the sound of my kick. No built in eq scoop stuff going on…

[Chris Whitten]

You haven't stirred things up.  

If it works ... use it. Don't get caught up in the price or the brand name.

That's a fair statement.
In the range of studios I've passed through this year (admittedly not as many as yer average pro), cheap mics yes, Audix's no.
Don't ask me why.
That's all I was essentially trying to say.  

[Bart Elliott]

You haven't stirred things up.  That's a fair statement.
In the range of studios I've passed through this year (admittedly not as many as yer average pro), cheap mics yes, Audix's no.
Don't ask me why.
That's all I was essentially trying to say.  

Ah ... I understand now. Cool.

[Mark Schlipper]

cheap mics yes, Audix's no.  Don't ask me why.

Maybe a UK vs US issue (sound aside).  Could be Audix just arent as widespread from a retail perspective.  Maybe theres a UK equivalent that we dont see much here.   Happens all the time.

[Mark Schlipper]

Ok, maybe I've been living in a cave too long.  But I seem to be the only one relying on shure.  ...  So, what am I missing?  

I dont have any Shure's in my collection because I havent heard one I wanted in there.  I find 57's rather bland and lifeless.  Obviously thats just my opinion.    But its why I dont use 'em.

There isnt technically anything wrong with 'em.  They are fine mics if you like that sound.  Mics are just like instruments, they all have their own unique sound, you choose what you like.

So while you may not be missing anything, I do think limiting yourself is .... well ... potentially limiting.  If you like the Shures, stick with 'em.   But dont be afraid to try others just because they arent Shure.

[felix]

I just got done talking to my friend about the Shure B-52.  He said they very clicky and the D-6 blows them out of the water.  He's a big fan of audix mics and has been trying to get me to buy one for at least a year.  He's a live sound guy, but does get into studios and his best friend is highly regarded studio drummer/pro in Youngstown- that's who turned him onto the D-6.

Take it for what it's worth.  You can also get the things on ebay for $150.  Man, that's CHEEEP CHEEEP


hmmm?  

[vertijoe]

I dont have any Shure's in my collection because I havent heard one I wanted in there.  I find 57's rather bland and lifeless.  Obviously thats just my opinion.    But its why I dont use 'em.

I was looking for opinions.  I've been out of recording for a long time, and just re-entering.  The 57's were easy way to start building the mic locker.  They are decent on guitar amps as well has drums, so they were a relatively cheap, versatile investment.  

The Beta 52, in my very limited experience with it, has performed very well.  I like a very natural open kick sound, and it delivered.  It is suppose to work well with Bass guitar as well.  We will find out tonight, as the bass player is coming over to lay down a couple of tracks.

Price is an issue.  This is a little home studio, I'm a long way from creating great recordings.  I may move into audix as I put more cash together.

Thanks for you input.

[vertijoe]

I just got done talking to my friend about the Shure B-52.  He said they very clicky and the D-6 blows them out of the water.  

Felix,

I found that when I first set the thing up.  Then I played with mic placement.  I pulled it about 12" - 15" out from the drum, and the click dissapeared, and the mic came to life.  Of course, if all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.  

Who knows, next time around maybe I'll invest in a D-6

[Chris Whitten]

I just did a sampling project with my drums.
To a certain degree mic choice was a money no object affair. If you're going to do this once you want to do it right....right?
We still used a 57 on snare.
I haven't heard anything better yet.
***YMMV***

[Christopher]

The 57's were easy way to start building the mic locker.

I agree, good start. SM57s are in just about every mic locker on the planet. They are the snare drum mic to me, and many others as well.

Can't go wrong with those, build from there...

[Chris Whitten]

I've seen them used a lot on toms AND sometimes on bass drum. Not my preference, but there you go.
The only no brainers for me were 57 (snare top) and small condensers (o/heads/cymbals).
My biggest conumdrum is tom mics and an internal bass drum mic (ok all you Audix fans...I hear ya).
I just find the ubiquitous 421 a boring choice for toms. Of course it works.
On my sampling session we used vintage Neumann KM56's and they were a dream to listen to. So much bottom end, but at a price.....about $3,000 each.  
If ever there was a time to use a two tom kit! LOL
Anyway, I'm looking at some mics that Steve Albini collaborated on for Josephson. I think they're over a grand each though, so it's just a dream.
My philosophy is to buy the odd mic whever I can, looking for the absolute best I can afford.
After all, we know you can record a kit with two or three mics.
I think I've amassed four so far.......although I've still yet to pick up a 57.  

[felix]

Fun thread.

That's fine joe, I've never used a Beta 52, but I have had my fill of mic placement horrors.  If anything is going to save me time, I'm in.

I can't sell microphones once I've bought them (don't ask), but if I could, I'd sell all my shure's and radio shack mics except for my old unidyne 57, which was my first mic.  

It's very easy to get attached to microphones.  I'm guilty of it.  I hate Shure mics, I think 57's sound like ca ca, in fact, I know they do, but my old unidyne is my fav mic.  You simply have to A/B the things on the same source, look at the specs, hear what the specs do, and see if you dig the color for the application.  To me, a 57 is very bland, dry, kinda black and white.

[Drumlooney]

Wow I know that mics are a "preference" but to call the 421's a "boring choice" is crazy. I'm not just saying this because I own 4 of them, but I've never heard them discribed as boring.  On another note, I just picked up the AT 2500 dual element mic, first impressions?  not very happy with it, I have to work with it a little, move it around etc.  but I'm not to happy with it so far.  Anyway  just adding my two cents.

[Chris Whitten]

Wow I know that mics are a "preference" but to call the 421's a "boring choice" is crazy.

Not 'crazy' at all.
If a mic is almost chosen without question and by almost everyone that records drums it can be perceived as boring.
Note I didn't say bad.
The 421 is a great mic....and especially good on toms. I happen to like the 57 on snare. That could be perceived as a boring choice because everyone and their mother seems to record with 57 on snare.
I think you are over reacting a little.
I never said there was anything wrong with the 421, just that I was looking for something different.....for a change.

[Drumlooney]

I didn't want to come across as over reacting, I'm just curious as to what makes the mike boring.