13" vs 14" Snare Drums

[zorrosg]

Yo Paicey, your post just reinforces my growing conviction that for most popular music, except maybe jazz or classical, the humble steel drum may still be the best choice. Best in the sense that it really has the bark and bite to do the job of sticking that back beat right.
In a certain sense, like boutique guitars, the fancy snares of all kind of different materials may offer some sonic differences, but it could be very much a visual, aesthetic or mental thing. It certainly enriches our hobbies as drummers, gives us something to lust after and obsess over. But at the end off the day, it seems like the bread and butter snare that does the job 90% of the time is a simple steel snare like yours, which doesn't need to cost big bucks to sound good.
But cymbals are a slightly different story - the sonic palette there is much wider, and the cheap crappy cymbals can really sound bad, whereas IMHO, there's really no such thing as a bad sounding snare if it in working condition and tuned right. Sometimes, as I've encountered, it will even sound great with a worn out 10 year old head on it!

[Paicey]

Yes sir Zorrosg, i cant get away from my Paiste signatures. I wish there WERE cheaper alternatives that would flip me out but as of yet there isnt. I still find myself looking for a higher priced 5.5x13'' drum that will eclipse the cheap Mapex ive been enamoured with because higher price should equal better sound right?. I wish this drum was a DW edge that id payed 460 for and looked georgous so i could say THIS is why you pay high dollar to get the sound you dream of but i havent heard anything that tops this piece of junk yet, honestly. Im almost embarrassed to take it out of the bag i carry it in but the little thing just kills!!. Maybe i should get tube lugs for it and put a Dunnett label on it to make me feel better?.

[Joe]

Im almost embarrassed to take it out of the bag i carry it in but the little thing just kills!!. Maybe i should get tube lugs for it and put a [boutique] label on it to make me feel better?.

Or you could just, you know, have pride in your modesty and use the drum as it is, thus helping to stop the propagation of all this high-dollar nonsense.  It's what I do. :)

[James Walker]

In a certain sense, like boutique guitars, the fancy snares of all kind of different materials may offer some sonic differences, but it could be very much a visual, aesthetic or mental thing. It certainly enriches our hobbies as drummers, gives us something to lust after and obsess over. But at the end off the day, it seems like the bread and butter snare that does the job 90% of the time is a simple steel snare like yours, which doesn't need to cost big bucks to sound good.

Define "good."  ;)

There's a Mapex set at a school where I teach drum lessons, and I will admit that I'm consistently impressed that its (Mapex steel) snare sounds as good as it does.  Is it "good enough" for most gigs?  Sure.  Can I think of other snare drums that I would rather have on the bandstand, purely because I think they sound better (and not for "snob appeal")?  Very much so.  The main difference for me is versatility - those inexpensive COS snares can indeed be made to sound good, but they don't seem to offer the same range of useable, musical (to my ears, at least) tunings that other snares can.

There is a lot of hype to the "boutique" drum market, to be sure ("Gee, Jim - ya think?") - but it's not all hype.  There is substance as well, IMHO.  I'd also say there's definitely a point of diminishing returns when it comes to expensive snare drums - does a $1500 N&C/Zildjian snare sound better than a $200 (we're talking list price here) Blacrolite?  IMHO, yes it does.  Does it sound over seven times better?  You'd have to do some serious tap dancing to convince me of that...

[Joe]

There is a lot of hype to the "boutique" drum market, to be sure ("Gee, Jim - ya think?") - but it's not all hype.  There is substance as well, IMHO.  

I certainly don't intend to overlook this.  There is a lot of tone coloring to be had from certain drums that require a good deal of working and fabricationâ€"and thus a higher price.

[Chip Donaho]

Or you could just, you know, have pride in your modesty and use the drum as it is, thus helping to stop the propagation of all this high-dollar nonsense.  It's what I do. :)

The cost of the drum has nothing to do with the size & sound of the drum....Which this thread is about. I've got both inexpensive snares and high quality snares. Each drum has it's own sound. I would consider that statement to be a direct "slam" to anyone that's bought a drum out of YOUR price range.  Some people have inexpensive drums that sound very good, including myself. I've also got " high dollar nonsence" snares that sound very good. So please don't knock people for their choices of a drum that they have worked very hard for. That statement sure didn't sound "modest" to me.   ::)   :-X

[Mister Acrolite]

Size is not always a good predictor of volume. My loudest snare is a 3x13 Ludwig Black Beauty piccolo, which will tear your FACE off. Loud, fat, and crisp - truly an amazing drum.

My 5x13 maple/mahogany Slingeryo is a much quieter drum, with a definite volume ceiling beyond which you don't get any additional umph out of the drum, no matter how hard you hit.

5x14 has become a catch-all size, and for good reason: it works. But there's certainly no reason you can't find a larger or smaller size and be content with it as your primary snare. A lot of it depends on the music you're playing. My 5x13 Slingeryo might be an excellent primary snare for some softer gigs, but not for a rock concert. Likewise, my BB piccolo is just too much drum for some gigs.

The Acrolite is a drum that I've found can fit in anywhere - to me that's its primary appeal. It's my all-purpose drum, and is my first pick for any gigs I take where I don't know exactly what to expect. I like having a drum like that - it puts my mind at ease. But it's also fun to have more specialized drums to choose from.

As far as dollars-to-sound, again there's often not a direct corollary. I've heard some cheap drums sound every bit as good as more expensive ones, particularly among metal snares. With wood snares, I see more of a you-get-what-you-pay-for thing happening: I think high-dollar vintage Radio Kings really do sound better than a nicely made new maple snare. But I believe in the voodoo of aged wood, that it really sounds better than new wood. I have ZERO science to back that up; just lots of experience.

However, it seems like some of the high-dollar new boutique wood drums have figured out some of that magic - I played a couple of new Craviottos that just killed. But I'm decently stocked with older wood snares, so I doubt I'll ever shell out the big bucks for a new wood one. But that's just because I'm a cheap bastard.

[Chip Donaho]

But I believe in the voodoo of aged wood, that it really sounds better than new wood. I have ZERO science to back that up; just lots of experience.

However, it seems like some of the high-dollar new boutique wood drums have figured out some of that magic -

There's a few old 14" drums I wish I had never parted with.... I'm still trying to buy back an old chrome Gretch from a guy, but he won't part with it. I also agree about the aged wood.... So when I did find "that sound" again I just paid the price and was happy to find it. Nothing wrong with being "cheap" if you can get the sound you're after.  8)

[Ian]

This has been a really insightful thread.

Now we just have to wait for James to guess what Joe's snare samples are (down to the snare wires used :) ).

[James Walker]

Now we just have to wait for James to guess what Joe's snare samples are (down to the snare wires used :) ).

Oh, @$%# - I forgot all about that!   ::)

(...Jim listens to sound files again..."Please, I will need complete silence from the audience.")

"Ahem..."

(cue theremin music.)

[Paul Giamatti voice]OK, I've got it...the first one is a 3x13" Pearl COS piccolo, with a Remo Ambassador coated head (having lost exactly 11% of its coating, and from the prominence of the third partial in the harmonics, I'm guessing it left the Remo factory in December 2004 - that batch tended to emphasize the third partial)...the wires - stock Pearl chrome-over-steel, with eight loops per inch - have stretched approximately 6% from their original state, the mounting screws for the lugs have Philips-head screws and 1/2" washers, the lugs themselves were cast at a small shop two kilometers south of Taipei, Taiwan, in the southwest corner of the building, on a cool, rainy day, on a machine that had recently been calibrated by Mr. Chen, who has worked at the factory since 1974, two years after marrying his wife, but about six months before the birth of his first child, a boy, who grew up to be a ranger at Kenting National Park on the south side of the island, where he works to this day (and is very happy with his work, by the way)...  [/Paul Giamatti voice]

Ain't it amazing what you can glean from a snare drum sample online?  LOL  ;D  (Please tune in for next week's episode of "Crossing Over - To Your Snare Drums," with James Walker...)

Honestly, I have virtually no clue.  The first one sounds like a metal shell, and the second sounds like a wood shell, but that's about all I feel confident in guessing.  Maybe - maybe - the second shell is deeper than the first.  I was trying to figure out if Joe might have posted two snare drums of differing diameters, but I honestly couldn't say.  The first one definitely sounds smaller than 14", and the second one might be 13" as well.

Joe?  Please tell me I didn't get my theremin out for nothing.   :P ;D ;)

[Christopher]

I've got four - two 6x13, one 5x13, and a 3x13.

Dag James!

A mere  http://community.drummercafe.com/index.php?board=10;action=display;threadid=4686;start=msg50729#msg50729]two years ago , you were void of any 13s. And now you're up to four!

Outstanding.

Your wife must truly hate us for even uttering the "13" word.  ;)

[Joe]

Heh-heh. ;D

I'm sorry that I had to take them down, at least temporarily, but I guess that you have the files anyway.  Your divining, though, proved somewhat accurate, would you believe?

The first is my Supraphonic 400, cranked a full turn more than usual.  It's amazing, the amount of torque that comes from two more lugs.  Incidentally, this is the same drum I used in my latest "Let's Hear You Play" post.

The second is my 3 x 13" Pearl steel piccolo, at its usual tension.

And there's Aquarian heads on both, dern ya. ;D

[James Walker]

Your wife must truly hate us for even uttering the "13" word.  ;)

We haven't even mentioned the 4.25x13 "Alpha/Pink" fibreglass shell that Paul Mason has on the Tempus clearance list, a shell which has been calling out my name for a few months now.  ;)

However, my wife has this crazy idea that it's important each month to pay our phone bills, electric bills, car payment...where the hell are her priorities?  LOL

[equipmentdork]

I was on my way to JD music in Omaha to purchase a black on black brass DW  because it was killer!! but on the way i stopped in at Mars music to kill some time and was just tapping on this and that and i came upon this cheap 110$ steel Mapex snare drum that blew me away!!. I was dumbfounded, astonished, perplexed, and stupified that this piece of junk affected me this way. Its been my main snaredrum for 3 years and ive put a p85 strainer on it as the original drop throw was worthless after 3 months of use. To this day i still shake my head when i set it up next to my kit. Its, FULL, SWEET, FAT, ROUND, WARM etc etc etc. Its a 5.5x13 that totally kills the 3.5x13 Ludwig as a main drum. Ill take this drum over a 5.5x14 Craviotto, NO, im not high. Who woulda thought??????.

I recently played a Mapex Venus 6-1/2x14 Steel snare at a rehearsal studio, and I just couldn't believe how great the thing sounded. Still can't.  I won't be tossing my Super Ludwig snares because of it, but you can bet I put my Supra back in its gig bag!

Dan

[zorrosg]

By a curious coincidence, I just leafed through the Aug issue of DRUM mag and they had a very favorable review on the 13x7"amber  acrylic piglite snare. Made me feel like rushing out to buy one :)
Also, the UK drum magazine I just bought has a review on the latest Pearl Reference snares, and the one that caught their fancy was the 13" one , above the 2 14" models!
Finally, I've been re-tuning my cheapo 13 x 3.5" brass piccolo, and even that sounds kinda decent now, with the factory heads still on. So looks like 13" snares may not be that inferior to 14" ones after all?

[dannydrumperc]

Finally, I've been re-tuning my cheapo 13 x 3.5" brass piccolo, and even that sounds kinda decent now, with the factory heads still on. So looks like 13" snares may not be that inferior to 14" ones after all?

I did the same with my piccolo. I think this kind of snare drums sound the best with a plain single ply coated head (Ambassador, G1, etc...) - no muffling rings, dots or whatever. I had a Power Stroke 3 coated head on mine but it restricted it tuneability. Sounded great on the lower ranges but last night I reinstalled it's factory head and the higher sounds really came alive. These drums are too shallow and if not fitted with the proper head we can kill their sound (as I was doing). It all depends on what you are looking for, I think. If you want some thing higher than a 6.5x14 but still beefy sounding and all you got is a piccolo, then put a heavier head on it. But if you want it to sing like the fat lady of the opera, then put lighter head on it and it will give you that 311 kind of sound.

Once I was playing a gig with this drum with the same head I reinstalled in it last night. A friend of mine (who happens to be an endorsed percussionist) was in the audience and compared my snares sound with Stewart Copelands. I felt very flattered.