Pit bands

[1Xanadu1]

Last week I went with the school band to our annual trip to California, it was a lot of fun. On our trip we went all around California playing, seeing sites and just hanging out. However the day that sticks in my memory the most (besides Disney Land) is going to see a play called "Wicked" It's a very high budget Musical that totally blew me away. The thing that amazed me the most was the pit band. They played so well and the music was really great to listen to. I was wondering if any of you guys had any experience with playing in a pit band for musicals like that and could relay some information to me. To me, it seems like a whole lot of fun and I would definitely be interested in trying to land a gig like that.

[Chris Whitten]

Sorry to seem negative........
These are sought after gigs, mostly because the money and conditions are pretty good and also because it is fairly steady and guaranteed work (up to a point).
The people I know who do this are definitely bored.
The same music, up to 8 times a week. Working at the same location, the exact same hours, with the same people.
Most pit bands are to be heard and not seen. You don't get any audience appreciation as in other musical situations.
The musicians I know who do this are incredible players, but take on this work primarily because it is steady and stable.

[Bart Elliott]

I love pitwork and don't feel bored at all. If you get bored with pitwork, then pitwork more than likely isn't for you.

There's a unique challenge to playing in the pit ... predominantly it's having to play the part right night after night after night. Most musicals, especially those that require the percussionist to cover multiple parts ... parts that would normally take several percussionists to cover.

I've loved having to play drumset while playing xylophone or bells at the same time. It's a blast and a great challenge to work out and play well again and again.

Playing the same show, night after night, same time and place, can be a HUGE benefit if you use it to your advantage. It allows you to book other gigs and sessions around your "steady" work with the pit orchestra. Sometimes you'll have to turn down work because of conflicts, but if you have a family and would like to know what your schedule is going to be like weeks/months in advance, pitwork just might be for you. As I get older, pitwork definitely interests me more and more, although I haven't had or pursued a steady pit gig in over 10 years.

To see a list of plays/musicals I've done, many for long runs, click  http://www.bartelliott.com/performance.html]HERE .

[KevinD]

A gig on a Broadway show here is certainly sought after, while I think there may be some degree of boredom or complacency that sets in,  there are other outlets that these musicians seek to balance that out.

One of the more interesting gigs I've seen here in a long while is on Friday nights at 5:30 at Birdland. Tommy Igoe has a big band comprised primarily of Broadway players, they usually play two sets and are done by 7:30 so they can make their curtain. (Birdland is located right in the theater district). Tommy and the band put on a great show, he is a great drummer and a great personality. For some reason it isn't widely publicized, but every time I've been there it has been packed, so maybe they don't need to publicize it too much. I think it is either free or a $10 drink minimum, either way, the cheapest way to see great players here, and a great outlet for those pit musicians who need to stretch a little. 

[1Xanadu1]

Thanks for the input guys. I will definitely take all the points in to consideration, but if I ever got the chance to be in a pit band I would try it out at least once.

[Chris Whitten]

I'll reinforce Bart and KevinD and say again, there are definitely plenty of benefits.
The pit guys I know do sessions or rehearsal bands by day.
Playing in the pit is also an artform not to be sneezed at, as Bart alludes to.
Some amazing players are doing pit work in New York and London, not to mention Vegas.
I don't think it would be for me though and I'm not sure I've heard many pit guys describe it as 'a whole lot of fun'. Maybe I wasn't listening when they did (my own prejudice?).

[David Crigger]

Since those literally high school musicals back in high school, I've always really enjoyed pit work.  At the same time, I've always shyed away from commiting to long runs (I always get this image of me in postman's outfit high in a clock tower exploring the capabilites of semi-automatic weaponry) - so most of my work in the pit has been as a sub.  Yes! Even less job security, twice the terror... all for the same pay. :-)

But like I said I've really enjoyed it. Of the bigger shows, subbing on Les Miserable was probably the most demanding while being equally sort of "not fun" musically. Lion King (in LA) was certainly the most all around demanding - musically, physically and mentally - and was really a joy to do; walked out of the theater each time feeling like I'd really musically accomplished something that day.

My personal favorite was the chance to sub for Tony DeAugustine with the touring company of Jesus Christ Superstar.  Mainly because it was one of my favorite records growing up - one that I had wanted to play live since before ANYONE had played it live (JC Superstar was just a concept album for quite awhile before it was realized onstage - for those too young to remember)

Anyway, while Tony's playing the show in LA, his father becomes quite ill back east  - demanding his swift return.  Well supposedly a sub was brought in on Wed night and it really didn't go well - I think Tony had to finish the second half.  So I get the call Thursday afternoon, asking whether I'm free to come down and watch Tony play the show that night and then sub for him for starting Friday night and continuing through weekend (the end of their LA run).

Luckily (or sad to say, career-wise anyway)  I was free to do this.  Clearly not enough time to prep - but that was understood by all.  So went down, sat next to Tony in the pit, soaked in all that I could.  Was handed the book and a recent tape...and "See you tomorrow! 7:30 call."

Of course, like most touring guys that don't get to regularly send in subs (like an in town show allows), Tony hadn't kept the book up to date with every little nuance. Not that I would expect him to.  So got started Friday going through the book with the tape - making all the little corrections and marks and notes to myself - so that when I saw those same pages that night they would lead through the million little details that I would need to "know".

Like I said, I knew and loved this music, so the learning curve was mainly about how this particular production interpets it different from the original - so anyway, the first show went fine... got to "save the day", "be the hero" and all that. Good thing it well too as Tony had left on the "red eye" the night before. :-)

Anyway with the terror of the first show behind - then it just continued to get more and more fun as the weekend progressed.  They were happy, I got paid... and most importantly I finally got to play Jesus Christ Superstar.  WooHoo!

Anyways oops - rambling story - playing in the pit can be fun. At least it has been for me.

David

[Chris Whitten]

It is generally a very demanding job I think.
For a start, the action on stage takes total precedence. This usually leads to some weird tempo changes, weird segues and odd time signatures, and often all three at once.
I would be too scared to take on even the simplest show with no rehearsal. Congratulations on your bravery and ability David.

My personal favorite was the chance to sub for Tony DeAugustine with the touring company of Jesus Christ Superstar. 

As I'm the only negative voice in this thread I'll just say again, if you are going to go for this career, you can't always choose your favourite music to work on. I enjoyed playing JCS at high school by the way.
Also, my character doesn't suit the discipline involved.
Some friends are currently in the pit band of a top musical in town. The music is all big hits, mostly from the disco era.
I love that kind of thing and would be excited to play funky dance music with such a great band. However, I know after a couple of weeks my excitement would be waning. These guys are cruising into their sixth month.  :o

[Stewart Manley]

I was at an Andy Newmark clinic, where he was asked about his Lion King stint (five years, I think).

His shoulders visibly dropped. He vouchsafed that it would be a chilly day in hell before he'd do it again.

[David Crigger]

As I'm the only negative voice in this thread I'll just say again, if you are going to go for this career, you can't always choose your favourite music to work on.

But I think that goes hand in hand for most anyone choosing playing drums long term as a profession.  Played Proud Mary, Celebration... and Raindrops Keep Falling On My Head for that matter :-) too many times for my taste... ah, but when you nedd to get paid... well, that's why they call it work. :-)

Seriously how to balance the joy of playing vs money thing was taught to me this way -

As working player there are three reasons to leave your house to play -

1. If there is music to be played that you just can't pass up being involved with - because it thrills you, will be great experince, etc.

2. If the money involved makes it irresponsible for you to just stay home and practice

3. If there are going to be players, writers, contractors, or whoever there that once exposed to how good you play will help you get better versions of #1 and #2.

In other -

1. The music

2. The money

3. Publicity, politics, networking - whatever you want to call it.

When you're starting out, try to have playing out meet one of those catagories - later, try to push it so you are more often getting two at the same time. Better music that still pays; or the "for kicks" band that is really pulling in great crowds; etc.

One rarely gets all three.  :-(

Anyway back to Chris' negative voice - I think you can include me there as well, because as I said for anything other than short stints (which most theater gigs aren't) the 8 shows a week...week after week after.... I don't care if it was a retelling of Romeo and Julliet set to the music of the Mahavishnu Orchestra...after a few months, I'd probably be begging for someone to just take me out and shoot me.

David

[David Newman]

I guess I can't add much to what has already been said, just that I always loved pit jobs. They can be a little more socially stimulating if you have a cast that you see at rehearsals, shows and smoke breaks over a period of time. Also, coordinating sound-effects with live action keeps you on your toes.

[Chris Whitten]

But I think that goes hand in hand for most anyone choosing playing drums long term as a profession.  Played Proud Mary, Celebration... and Raindrops Keep Falling On My Head for that matter :-) too many times for my taste... ah, but when you need to get paid... well, that's why they call it work. :-)

True....very true.
I guess I was thinking there are few musically great musicals (IMHO) - in the big scheme of things.
Ergo......... if you see one that inspires like 'Wicked' you can't assume you'll always have a gig like that.
As for Newmark.
I'm surprised he acted like that. It seemed to me he totally chose to work on Lion King, chose how long he stuck with it too. He's a legend and could work in many different circumstances. My impression was his stint in the pit came about because he desired some stability and less uncertainty in his life.

[Stewart Manley]

As for Newmark. I'm surprised he acted like that.

Perhaps I exaggerate a little. But he was pretty clear that it was tough.

[Chris Whitten]

But he was pretty clear that it was tough.

I'm sure.
I wouldn't dispute your take on him and his reaction. You were there, I was not.
An interesting story anyway.

[Bart Elliott]

Seriously how to balance the joy of playing vs money thing was taught to me this way -

As working player there are three reasons to leave your house to play -

1. If there is music to be played that you just can't pass up being involved with - because it thrills you, will be great experince, etc.

2. If the money involved makes it irresponsible for you to just stay home and practice

3. If there are going to be players, writers, contractors, or whoever there that once exposed to how good you play will help you get better versions of #1 and #2.

That is EXACTLY what I've learned, and the filter I use when deciding whether to take the gig or not. Sometimes I sit down and discuss it through with my wife, using the three points of music, money or networking, before answering the question as to whether I'm interested or want the gig. Nowadays, I turn down a lot of work. If I'm bored or need some extra $$$, I take gigs I wouldn't normally take.

[Chris Whitten]

1. If there is music to be played that you just can't pass up being involved with - because it thrills you, will be great experince, etc.

2. If the money involved makes it irresponsible for you to just stay home and practice

3. If there are going to be players, writers, contractors, or whoever there that once exposed to how good you play will help you get better versions of #1 and #2.

If we are going to go down this tangent I'd seriously add a 4th category; to play with people.
This is quite crucial for younger, or inexperienced players.
For me too.......
I hardly picked up a pair of sticks between '91 and 2005.
Coming out of retirement, #1 was rarely an option, numbers 2 & 3 could ruin me if I arrived unprepared to be at my best.
Playing with other musicians, any other musicians can be very worthwhile in certain circumstances. Sometimes it can turn into a networking thing, but not always.

[Bart Elliott]

Playing with other musicians, any other musicians can be very worthwhile in certain circumstances. Sometimes it can turn into a networking thing, but not always.

I agree.

Younger students and/or beginners should play with as many people as possible in as many genres as possible. When I was in college studying music, I played in every ensemble I could, every recital possible, and every gig around town regardless of the genre or whether it paid or not. The musician I am today is largely due to my experiences from my younger years; playing and studying all kinds of music.

As we get older and more established in our careers, we can use points 1, 2 and 3 as our guide. Not only is it better for us career wise, but it keeps us on target with our personal goals AND keeps us from getting VERY frustrated!

[David Crigger]

If we are going to go down this tangent I'd seriously add a 4th category; to play with people.
This is quite crucial for younger, or inexperienced players.
For me too.......
I hardly picked up a pair of sticks between '91 and 2005.
Coming out of retirement, #1 was rarely an option, numbers 2 & 3 could ruin me if I arrived unprepared to be at my best.
Playing with other musicians, any other musicians can be very worthwhile in certain circumstances. Sometimes it can turn into a networking thing, but not always.

I agree, though I always thought of that as part of #1 - which early on should probably be driven more about gaining experience playing with others more than any other consideration. Later it could be about playing with better players. Then as more of #2 and #3 kick in, more stylistic focus could enter into it.

Re-reading the way I explained #1, I realize it could be construed as an excuse for limiting ones exposure to only certain playing situations - the "I want to be a goth-progressive-speed-metal drummer" syndrone. I think any drummer starting out that limits his playing-out in anyway is a fool - at the beginning, you should aspire to play with any and everyone that will give you a go. Which means bands, school, an old folks retirement band (personally one of my first "not at school" experiences), etc. - later as the schedule fills up and starts to overflow, the music, money, networking thing can help with weeding things out.

David

[kohei]

There are a number of guys/gals I know who are involved in Broadway/Off Broadway pits; generally there is a point in time (after X number of shows played) that you can sub stuff out at will. There's a tenor player up here that has it down to an art, he never plays any more than the minimum of shows. That way he has steady income; if he doesn't have anything else booked, he does the show.

Subbing is a little more involved than just calliing somebody up; most of the guys here can get copies of the book, go to the shows, sit in the pit for the shows, so it's not like they just get the call and show up to see the book for the first time. There are a couple of shows that the MD/conductor has a DVD of him conducting the show (with the soundtrack) so that anybody who is likely to be called to sub can not only practice the part, they can do so to him actually conducting. Sure, it's a competitive scene. But it's not like it's cutthroat. Everybody wants a gig, but they're cognizant that cutting somebody out of a gig may hurt any future chance of subbing for that person in another show. And not everything is LION KING or BEAUTY AND THE BEAST, some of these shows close after a few months (if not a few weeks).

The main complaint I've heard isn't boredom, it's that you can't get that music out of your head. Having CIRCLE OF LIFE being the only thing you can hear while you're trying to come up with a line on HAVE YOU MET MISS JONES isn't the happiest of circumstance. There have been any number of great, creative bassists that have done shows AND managed to keep playing some deep music on their own - Jeff Carney, Lindsay Horner, Dave Finck - but I'm pretty much with Jimmy Raney. He did a long running show and said that playing on Broadway was the closest musical equivalent of stuffing mattresses for a living...

[jnyman]

I'll chime in... Like Fred Durst said, I be in agreeance pretty much with what's been said... but I'll refer back to the OP, who I believe is young? High School trip, right?

He went, he saw a pit band, it tickled him. I say ALWAYS pursue the tickle. Your tickle will never leave you until you pay attention to it. Maybe not even then. I think that's what Chris was saying, in effect, 'no tickle' for him in the pit band.

I've subbed on a few shows. Local, understaffed, enthusiastic but still largely horrible productions. It was GREAT!!! They were shows I saw in my youth, shows that started me down the drumming path. There is nothing so great as to tag up on touchstones that inspired you in the first place. I saw the Rocky Horry Show when I was 14, talked to the drummer (he was so nice!)... at 40-something I played the show... in a gay bar...  in Anchorage, Alaska. Doesn't matter. I'd touched that magic bit of musical joy... It was sublime.

I say pursue the musical tickle no matter what it is and no matter what anyone says! It's important!

[Dave Heim]

. . . I was wondering if any of you guys had any experience with playing in a pit band for musicals like that and could relay some information to me. To me, it seems like a whole lot of fun and I would definitely be interested in trying to land a gig like that.

I've done some pit work.  Much of it has been helping out college & high school productions, community theatre groups, the local Gilbert & Sullivan Societies (two of them!), V-shows, skits, award shows, etc.  I'm currently in the middle of some shows with a church-based musical comedy group (it's a lot of boom/chick stuff & sound effects - yet still challenging and fun).

Its great fun to play in the pit.  And even though the performances can be repetitous, there's a chance for each performance to be unique in its own way.  People miss cues, flub lines, miss entrances (keep vamping!), stuff like that.  Just keep one eye on the music, one eye on the conductor, and one eye on the stage!

Good luck in your quest - you'll enjoy the work!

PS - If you have not yet seen the movie "Waiting for Guffman", check it out.  It's a really funny spoof of community theatre.  :)

[1Xanadu1]

PS - If you have not yet seen the movie "Waiting for Guffman", check it out.  It's a really funny spoof of community theatre.  :)

I Haven't even heard of the movie, I'll rent it next time I'm at Blockbuster.

[Dave Heim]

I Haven't even heard of the movie, I'll rent it next time I'm at Blockbuster.

"Waiting for Guffman" is a Christopher Guest movie.  Same basic feel & cast as "Best in Show", "A Mighty Wind", and Rob Reiner's "This is Spinal Tap".

[Chris Whitten]

I seem to be pursuing the role of yang in ying & yang.  ::)

1. If there is music to be played that you just can't pass up being involved with - because it thrills you,

Yeah, I just had to say, even as an experienced drummer I'm playing a lot of music that doesn't thrill me, for virtually no income right now. The alternatives? Not to play, or to play on my own in a booked rehearsal room.

I say pursue the musical tickle no matter what it is and no matter what anyone says! It's important!

Absolutely!
I guess I just worry when everyone agrees without the other side being put.
I have nothing against pit bands or the pursuit of that career. I just want us to view things realistically and not through rose tinted glasses.
Given that you've picked up the high school trip angle (which I didn't), I should darn well shut up!  :-\
I really don't want to stifle any enthusiasm.  :-[
Suffice to say, I support any career in music (in any field) and support anyone who is trying to make it.
The pit musicians I've met have all been quite remarkeable players too.

[1Xanadu1]

I really don't want to stifle any enthusiasm.  :-[
Suffice to say, I support any career in music (in any field) and support anyone who is trying to make it.
The pit musicians I've met have all been quite remarkeable players too.

You didn't stifle anything Chris, I agree it's always good to share the bad along with the good. And I'm glad that you did, honestly. Thanks to everyone for there inputs, it means alot.