The value of learning covers

[Passeist]

What portion of a student's practice time should be spent learning cover songs?  By that, I mean learning the drum parts of classic songs note-for-note?

When I was starting out, I was constantly told that covers were a waste of time.  "You need to develop your own style."  Recently, though, I've been working on cover songs and I'm learning tons of stuff that I never would have otherwise.

[BAnimalG]

I, for one, feel that it is not at all a waste of time to learn covers.  I feel that a persons style is based upon putting bits and pieces of somebody else's styles together to make something unique in it's own right.  I know I will probably get brutally slammed for this, but I'm a big boy, I can handle it.  Let 'er rip.....

[rlhubley]

I don't think it is all that important.  Learning covers just to learn covers seems like a waste of time to me.  Listening to them will be good enough, unless you need to learn them for a gig, etc.  What I believe is more important is learning the grooves, etc of the drummers you like.  Listen to the drummers that inspire you.  Then, find a particular track that is challenging, but reasonable to your level, and learn the grooves, and next the entire song.  Transcribing will be a big help here.

[sidereal]

Depends on why you're asking. Interesting in that you say "learn covers" rather than "learn other band's songs" which makes me wonder if you'd be learning them in order to be in a cover band. In that case, yes, learn the songs. :)

No matter what the case, I certainly don't see the harm in it. If anything, you'll get a great appreciation for song structure, since a producer has had final say over a drum groove committed to tape anyway, and therefore you'll understand what makes up a final performance. It's very important to understand how drumming fits into the rest of the instrumentation happening in a song. It's method of learning that you can't get just by looking at drum notation.

Are you talking about just learning cool songs, or are you starting a cover band? I can elaborate more on either, but they're two very different questions.

[Misenko]

Learning covers is good, but I don't know if note for note practice is really whats needed, I mean if you learn a cover to learn something new then you are wanting to concentrate on the bits that are a new style to you. At least I think its more benificial that way, but I guess its hard for all you pro's to find something new in covers huh?  ;) ;D

Misenko.

[Passeist]

Actually, I was referring to learning songs note-for-note, as an educational exercise.  
If I'm learning a cover song for actual performance, I'll always write my own part.

[rlhubley]

You will ALWAYS make up your own part?   REally?  If you are doing that in a cover band, you won't last long, my friend.  They want live reproductions of the originals, and they will pay you nicely to do so.  

As for learning them note for note, again I would say find particular tunes/grooves you want(one at a time) transcribe it(at least mentally!), and learn it.  This IS a valuble way to learn.  

A few drummers I would reccommend for this:  

Jeff P.
Steve Gadd
Jeff P.
John Robinson
Jeff P.
Vinnie (not the "out" stuff)
Jeff P.
Ricky Lawson
and then maybe you should check out Jeff P.  ;D

[sidereal]

Yeah, Hubley's got it right on. In a working cover band, you can't be making up your own parts. Some variance is fine, but stick to the composition and the hooks that make the part what it is.

As for drummers to study in terms of their drum parts in isolation (i.e. not regarding the rest of the music, just the drum parts), Hubley's got good ones there. :) I'd also recommend:

Neil Peart (no matter what you think of him, everyone has to go through a Peart phase)

Bill Bruford

Terry Bozzio (Missing Persons' "U.S. Drag" is a perfect lesson in 4-way independence; he even throws in the quarter note ride at the very end for reference! what a nerd. :) also the entire Danger Money CD by U.K. will knock you out.)

John Fishman from Phish (both Rift and Pictures of Nectar have fabulous drum parts to learn)

Dan Gottlieb...

Lord I could go on and on. These aren't necessarily groove drummers like Pocaro and Gadd for example, but they are "part" drummers, whatever the hell that is. :D I'm trying to think of players whose parts are valuable to study in and of themselves.

[James Walker]

In terms of note-for-note transcription as a learning device, don't forget to check out what else is going on in the band, not just what the drummer is doing.  Relate the drum part to the bass line, the guitar and/or keyboard part, the vocals, background figures in the horns (if any), etc.

Try and get inside the mind of the drummer on the original recording - if you can get a glimpse into his/her decision making process, that'll be even more helpful to you when you're in your own band, coming up with your own part to one of your band's originals.

(IMHO, of course...)

[Matt Self (Gaddabout)]

Depending on which cover tune you're learning, playing along with the tracks is essential to the development of a beginner drummer. Not only does it simulate (sort of) what it's like to play with other musicians, almost all recorded tracks since the late70s have been recorded to a click track -- good time development.

If I get bored in practice, I still play along with a Steely Dan disc, or something else I find helpful. Like James said, I listen to other stuff going on in the song. I try to displace the drummer as much as possible, and become the drummer in that setting.

[sidereal]

Yeah, that's a great point.

One of my best teachers was Seconds Out the live Genesis album. Even though no click track was used, I played along with that until the tape was worn thin. You had the excellent dynamics and song-awareness of Chester Thompson, Phil Collins' always interesting fills and hat work, and Bill Bruford on one tune. What more could you want?! :)

I remember looking at the song "Suppers Ready" and seeing that there was a portion of the song called "Appocalypse in 9/8." I thought, what the hell does that mean? I had a hell of a time playing it and then I realized, hey, if I count to 9, it goes back to 1. That was my introduction to odd times. Once I realized that, it was a breakthrough and I was on to Close To The Edge, Danger Money, "A" by Jethro Tull (a prog rock math lesson!). Later I got into fusion for a while and then into pop, like the Police.

What I did was take the earpieces off a walkman and laid them inside a set of rifle range type ear protectors (those big bulky things). This way I could cut out a lot of the drum sound and also hear the walkman. As Gadd was mentioning, this was a great way to learn about songs, dynamics, drum parts, fills, song structure, and listening. So yeah, listening to songs is an excellent learning method.

[BAnimalG]

Jeff P.
Steve Gadd
Jeff P.
John Robinson
Jeff P.
Vinnie (not the "out" stuff)
Jeff P.
Ricky Lawson
and then maybe you should check out Jeff P.  

Yup.....Jeff P.  He da man!

[Passeist]

Lately, I've been studying drummers whose style is nothing at all like my own.  I really like to chop up the beat but keep it clicking like a clock, with very few fills.

For something different, I've been studying drum parts from some of the wailing 70's Rock drummers.  It's fun stuff, and a lot more difficult than I thought it would be.