Topic: Buddy Rich - The Light Side, The Dark Side, and Somewhere in between

[victor]

hes the best no doubt. theres nobody that can touch him, and there never will be another buddy.

[Monk Man]

opinions are like...well, we all know the rest of that phrase.

nice troll Han Steevo.

[Roger Beverage]

Might as well give up guys, Mr Steevo has dug in his heels and refuses to budge. It's his loss.

Roger

[felix]

han was booted out of here several months ago, don't expect an answer anytime soon.

[Mister Acrolite]

han was booted out of here several months ago, don't expect an answer anytime soon.

Han wasn't booted - he got mad and deleted himself from the Cafe.

[thomasarey]

wow...great thread here....I'm always facinated by these comparisons....
just my $.02......Virgil couldn't swing in a HAMMOCK compared to Buddy....he could swing any band into bad health any and every night he played....

I saw Virgil's clinics a few times, seen him play with his drum machine and was very impressed by the FACILITY he has on the kit....but.....as we know....music is the focus....Buddy could make anyone sound good....because of how supportive he would play...he had the biggest ears in the world and knew how to use em'.  My teacher used to tell me "if you focus on making everyone else sound good then they're going to make you sound good....and then you've got a good sounding band"....
Self indulgence and "why....because I CAN"....has no place in music...
Again...just my $.02.....make it a buck fitty.....

[felix]

Oh, how could I have forgotten!

Very common around here, people putting a mouse to their heads and ending it all with a single click.

It's like "I just realized I don't know everything in the world about drumming- time to end it all!--Good bye Cruel Drummer Cafe" - new motto Har Har

[Christopher]

Oh, how could I have forgotten!

Very common around here, people putting a mouse to their heads and ending it all with a single click.

It's like "I just realized I don't know everything in the world about drumming- time to end it all!--Good bye Cruel Drummer Cafe" - new motto Har Har

 

Right you are. Too many "you don't think like I do...waaaaaa. I'm going home. waaaaaa" types in the world.

We are bound to have a few here as well.

[Joe]

So, what's this I hear about the VF Buddy Rich signature drumstick not being designed by Buddy himself?

[Matt Self (Gaddabout)]

"Hawaiin War Chant" with the Tommy Dorsey Band. Extended duo with Buddy and a trumper player. Absolutely insane musicianship (and showmanship!). I dub it the beginning of art rock. hehehe

[Drumbo]

As much of a prick that Buddy was, he was an insanely talented prick

There are indeed instances of Buddy reacting to some situations where you could say this. In almost every instance though, you will find it's the veteran of half-a-century in the music business reacting to the smart alec attitude of some unknown youngster who had neither the tact nor the smarts not to challenge the Alpha male.

Buddy was at one time the highest paid sideman in the music business. The Marquee read: "The Tommy Dorsey Orchestra with Buddy Rich - featuring Frank Sinatra" -  Buddy got top billing over Frank if you can imagine a  drummer being that popular! It had never happened before and it hasn't happened since.

Even as Buddy and Frank battled over billing that sometimes ended in brawls and fisticuffs - a rivalry that was epic in show business proportions - it was Frank that loaned Buddy the money to finance his own bands when all was said and done. It was Buddy that Frank choose on more than a few occasions to back him on his world tours. Despite their fights in the 40's they became close friends bonded by the blood they had shed for their music.

Bassie, Ellington, James, Hawkins and 'Traine . . . all loved Buddy and have said so many times. Jerry Lewis, Sammy Davis, Jr., and scores of others lined up behind Buddy to testify of his enduring friendship and gentle side. Many of the guys in Buddy's bands were his close friends and respected mentors; great artists like Art Pepper and Don Menza!

It's always some unknown youngster who's only claim to fame was that he broke Buddy's rules and smuggled a recorder in to document Buddy's wrath who give Buddy his "prick" image, imho.

There were  guys that crossed Buddy and there were feuds during his almost 70-year career, there's no doubt - but, much more often than not, Buddy was loved by the guys (and girls) who sat in his band even though he was a demanding perfectionist. When I hear an isolated tape of some idiot from Buddy's band, on Buddy's bus, telling Buddy he's not going to honor Buddy's dress code, I fall down laughing.

Buddy played his heart out every night of his life from the age of 3 with a very few exceptions (when he was in the Marines or too sick). He gave more to show business than any of us can imagine and what he gave to drumming was to make it an art form - a respected and revered art form - and he set a standard that very few will ever reach, even now with all of our slick technologies, "improved methods" and 50 years of hind-sight to study and analyze his every move. Nine out of ten drummers are still stunned and amazed when they see - or more often hear Buddy's genius in the days before video was common. He put his reputation on the line every gig - and he never, ever compromised his integrety.

Columbus may not have been the greatest explorer to ever live - he was looking for India - but, he'll always be remembered for what he did, "evil white man"; or not. Buddy was that kind of pioneer - he blazed  trails that some of us are still stumbling through - and the fact that someone 50 years later can do this or that as good as Buddy did it is to be expected. The awesome thing is  that so few can even approach it and none have ever surpassed him!

I've strayed from where I was going, which is very easy when talking about Buddy - there's such a rich history and so much fertile musical ground to be covered . . . but people who showed Buddy the respect he deserved very often were respected in return. Very few of Buddy's musicians bad-mouthed him despite Buddy's constant demands for perfection. They'lltell you that in the 70's and 80's that Buddy's "kiddie" bands were the best boot camp in the business and those who played by Buddy's rules were generously rewarded. If you were serious about being excellent, Buddy's bus was the place to be.


Just my 2¢

[Joe]

I was about to post that I wouldn't have minded playing with Buddy, then I realized.......  

[Nick]

I was about to post that I wouldn't have minded playing with Buddy, then I realized.......  

LOL!

Cleaning tea off my monitor as a direct result of that post...  

 

N

[Joe]

When I hear an isolated tape of some idiot from Buddy's band, on Buddy's bus, telling Buddy he's not going to honor Buddy's dress code, I fall down laughing.

I totally agree with this and the rest of your post, Drumbo -- I just had to say that I do find it a bit ironic that Buddy was complaining that the trumpetist was "blowing [Buddy's] ear out"....

[Gregg Rivers]

I wonder if ANY of you remember Buddy's appearance on The Muppet show? That man took a pair of sticks and proceeded to play on everything (furniture and any other prop in his path) from his dressing room down the stair (remember the set) and out to the stage with some amazing licks and NEVER missed a beat! I was in high school the first time I saw that and was floored! The punch line was Fozzy Bear saying "Now that playing the HOUSE!"

[Ratamatatt]

Buddy was at one time the highest paid sideman in the music business. The Marquee read: "The Tommy Dorsey Orchestra with Buddy Rich - featuring Frank Sinatra" -  Buddy got top billing over Frank if you can imagine a  drummer being that popular! It had never happened before and it hasn't happened since.

Except for Gene Krupa who was even better known by the public and probably better paid.

[Drumbo]

Except for Gene Krupa who was even better known by the public and probably better paid.

In 1938, Buddy debuted on the downbeat poll at # 17. In 1939 he was up to #4. After that he consistently came in at #1 in the readers poll and if I'm not mistaken, he beat Krupa every year until 1943 when Buddy was away in the Marine Corps - in Mel Tormé's words, Buddy was "out-of-sight, out-of-mind" that year.

Despite beating Buddy, Krupa's career as a bandleader was on the ropes due to his arrest and conviction  for "contributing to the delinquency of a minor", and it was Benny Goodman who offered Gene his old seat with the Goodman Band. That didn't last long though as Goodman disliked being overshadowed by Gene's flamboyant performances and by 1944, Tommy Dorsey who was sorely missing his ace drummerman Buddy, offered Krupa, Rich's throne in the Dorsey organization.

For the next four and a half months, Krupa reigned as the hottest drum property in swing music until Buddy was discharged from the Marines and returned from his $33 a month GI gig to become the "highest paid sideman" in the history of the music world with the Dorsey orchestra.

It is known that Rich turned down Art Michaud's (Dorsey's manager) initial offer of $500 a week, and only after the ante was significantly boosted did Rich take his old job back pushing Dorsey's crew and displacing Gene Krupa. Gene never reached a fraction of Buddy's earning-power after that and the slightly older Krupa never again managed to over-shadow Buddy's rising star in the polls or the box-office.

Buddy and Gene were great friends and Buddy Rich held Gene in respectful awe as the man who single-handedly brought drums to the forefront. Buddy went out of his way on many occasions to help Gene's sagging career after 1943, even according to many historians and observers, cutting Gene some slack during many of their famous drum battles so as not to embarrass his influential mentor. It was the great Gene Krupa who called his friend Buddy "the greatest drummer to ever draw breath."  I agree with Gene, "God broke the mold."

[Big Yummy]

Bah!  I still prefer Gene Krupa.  There's so much more fun and humour in his playing.  Chops, schmops.

Besides, I might be able to learn some of Krupa's stuff.  Buddy's stuff is from Mars.

[Drumbo]

lol! Gene was a monster.

I'll say it's certainly much more fair to "compare" the drummers of 60 years ago to each other than to try comparing Buddy or Gene to Vinnie, Virgil, Art or whoever is playing drums today. Buddy had some fantastic contemporaries in Max Roach, Gene Krupa, Chick Web, Art Blakey and Eddie Tough just to name a few, and they all had an even playing field. Using calf skin heads, 1938 "state-of-the-art" foot pedals, flimsy hardware, sticks and even considering computer-aided cymbal technologies that have advanced light years in our own lifetimes makes their accomplishments that much more notable and awesome.  

Just as it's unfair to compare the World War II pilots of P-51 Mustangs to the feats of F-118 or Harrier jet pilots of today, it's silly to compare today's drummers to the great drummers of yesteryear imho. The very fact that it comes up so often in this and other forums attests to the remarkable skills that each of our drumming forefathers possessed! Think about it.

[Darren]

Drumbo, you said vinnie virgil art, then you mentioned art blakey.  Did you mean art blakey or art verdi because blakey is dead.  I don't know if you know that.  The next thing about vinnie playing with gadd and weckl on that rich vid.  I think weckl and gadd fit in that rich band better than vinnie did.  vinnie played to many complicated things in the buddy fills with that band.  vinnie thought he was playing with elvin's group that night I guess.  I know it's a crime to say any negative about vinnie and I know you guys would chase me with clubs to my death so being I'm safe I'm sayin it ha! lol